Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime 170 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Disillusioned JW

  Indoubtbigtime, just as there are Sun rises (and Moon rises) by the horizon of the Earth from the vantage place of the Earth due to the movement of the Earth, there are Earth rises by the horizon of the Moon from the vantage place of the Moon due to the movement of the Moon. It is thus not surprising to see authentic photos of an Earth rise by the horizon of the Moon from the vantage place of spacecraft's camera on certain places of the Moon (or in orbit of the Moon).

  See https://www.cnet.com/science/space/heres-the-nasa-artemis-i-earth-rise-video-weve-been-waiting-for/ and https://earthsky.org/space/what-would-earth-look-like-from-the-moon/#:~:text=Also%20consider%20the%20moon%27s%20slow,appear%20to%20rise%20or%20set. . See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise#:~:text=The%20Earth%20%22rose%22%20because%20the,quite%20unlike%20moonrises%20on%20Earth. .
  
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  Indoubtbigtime

  I will just leave these here🤣
  
• 

  TD

  Cue up more conspiratorial music:

  (Distance between the Gumby figure and the cup is the same in both pictures)
  

  
  
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  Thanks TD for your post about the distance between the Gumby figure and the cup. Your inclusion of the photos makes it simple and very easy to explain matters to Indoubtbigtime and other readers.

  For about a week I had been thinking along the same lines pertaining the distance between the Earth and the Moon in the NASA photos, but it was trying to think of how to state it simply without me making and uploading any photos (I hadn't even though of taking pictures). Expressing the ideas only in words seemed more tedious and complex to me. I was thinking of saying something along the lines of the following.

  "The appearance of the relative size of the Earth and the Moon varies by the distance to the closest of the two celestial objects, especially when one object is vastly greater than the other. Thus, if a camera is very close to the Moon (such as by being on a spacecraft on the Moon or in a low orbit of the Moon), then the Moon looks much larger than the Earth even though the Earth is actually much larger. That is because the relative distance of the camera to the Earth is much greater than that of the camera to the Moon. But, the further away the camera is from both the Earth and Moon, then the Earth is seen as being much larger, because the camera's distance to the Earth on a relative (or percentage) basis is much more nearly the same as camera's distance from the Moon, coupled with the fact that the Earth is much larger than the Moon."

  I also thought of suggesting to Indoubtbigtime the following. "Do an experiment of objects in your home, where one object is much larger than another, and then without moving the objects, vary your distance from the pair of objects to see what effect that has on the apparent relative size of the objects and the apparent distance between the pair of objects." At the time I wasn't in the mood of wrihting the above (or something like it) to Indoubtbigtime, especially since I later got a different impression of what Indoubtbigtime thought was the problem with NASA's photos, thus instead I made post about how the Sun and Moon can appear to be very close to a tree or a rooftop, despite actually being immensely away from a tree or a rooftop.
  
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  Indoubtbigtime

  Cue up more conspiratorial music:

  (Distance between the Gumby figure and the cup is the same in both pictures)

  Love it🤣
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  Indoubtbigtime

  Disalusioned. The truth doesn’t require such mental gymnastics.

  You can believe NASA never lie and all the pictures are not fake all you want.

  What I believe doesn’t need any mental gymnastics because it’s so simple - nasa lied. End of.
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  Indoubtbigtime, actually discerning the truth sometimes does require more work, since our minds can easily fool us and since matters are often more complex than they seem. For examples, the following are truths: the universe has existed for billions of years, biological evolution is true, humans descended from non-human animals by means of biological evolution, humans do not have an immortal soul, and there is no creator God of humans (nor of any other life on Earth) nor any God who is personally involved with humans.

  I had thought that if you were to view TD's post of the photo of the Gumby figure and the cup (and especially if you were to do your own similar experiment) that then you would realize that the NASA photos (showing both the Earth and the Moon) are not fake. But sadly I see that your delusion on this topic is vastly much greater ingrained in you than I thought.
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  There is absolutely zero evidence that NASA lied of sending spacecraft and astronauts to the Moon. But, Indoubtbigtime you can believe all you want that lied NASA about sending spacecraft and astronauts to the Moon.

  You can also believe all you want the incorrect idea that humans did not come into existence by means of biological evolution. You can also believe all you want the incorrect idea that humans have existed for only less than 10,000 years (or even only less than 7,000 years).

  You can believe all you want the false idea that Jehovah God (and/or Jesus Christ) will eventually kill/destroy billions of humans of planet Earth. You can believe all want the false idea that Jehovah God caused a worldwide flood sometime during the past 5,000 years and that the only humans to survive the flood were only 8 humans on an ark (with the ark loaded with 2 to 14 of every kind of animal then in existence).

  You can believe all you want the false idea that that Jesus Christ (nearly 2,000 years ago) performed supernatural miracles on Earth, that he later was resurrected from the dead and later ascended to heaven, and began sitting at the right hand of God the Father.

  You can believe all you want the false idea that Satan the Devil, angels, and demons exist, and they influence many humans. You can believe all want the false idea that demons have possessed and tormented humans and even pigs.

  You can believe all you want the false idea that a snake/serpent spoke (or that the Devil spoke through the animal) to a woman (the first human woman) named Eve and deceived her to eat fruit from a Tree of Knowledge.

  You can believe all you want the false idea that there existed a Garden in Eden (on Earth) which had a Tree of Life, such that if any human (such as Adam and Eve) were to the eat the fruit of that tree they would never ever die.

  You can believe all you want the false idea that there is a temple in heaven.

  You can believe all you want the false idea that there is a supernatural heaven with Jehovah God sitting on a throne, and with angels playing harps and offering praise to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.

  You can believe all you want the false idea that Jesus Christ is a savior for all humans who believe in him and put their trust in him and obey both him and Jehovah God.
  
• 

  TD

  For about a week I had been thinking along the same lines pertaining the distance between the Earth and the Moon in the NASA photos, but it was trying to think of how to state it simply without me making and uploading any photos.

  Perspective makes a huge difference:

  

  Picture on the left was taken an inch away from Gumby's face and picture on the right was taken 5 tiles away.
  

  Similarly, there is a big difference in perspective between a picture taken a scant 80 miles from the lunar surface (2022 Artemis/Orion) and a picture taken more than 750K miles away. (2011 DSCOVR)

  I dug up Soviet era Luna and Zond pictures to show that the Russians actually did some of this stuff first. Since then, China, Japan and others have joined the club:

  
  

  And still it's "NASA lied"

  (Up until this thread, I honestly thought Ken M had retired from the internet.)
  
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  Indoubtbigtime, you can believe all you want the false idea that everything the Bible teaches happened really did happen. You can believe all you want the false idea that everything the Bible teaches will happen really will happen.

  In my view it takes a tremendous amount of figurative mind twisting to accept that everything taught in the Bible is true (see my revised and expanded prior post). In contrast, from what I know of science and from my personal experience (including from direct experience with objects and from observations), it is very easy for me to accept that NASA has been telling the truth about having sent spacecraft and humans to the Moon.

  Interestingly, you don't say that the U.S.S.R. or Russia lied in claiming to have sent spacecraft to the Moon. I wonder why you don't claim such since you deny that NASA sent spacecraft to the Moon.