Watchtower Change On Origins from 42,000 Years to the "Day Age" Theory

by Sea Breeze 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Sea Breeze

  But Jeffro,

  Don't you see that, like I said, the Wt. already bought into the "billions of years" paradigm. The earth was clearly created BEFORE the other heavenly bodies according to Genesis.
  
  

  Genesis 1:9-10 (The Third Day)
  Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. God called the dry land earth,

  Genesis 1:16-18 (The Fourth Day)
  God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth

  This automatically makes the age of the earth billions of years from a Wt. interpretation.
  
  They snuck all this into the JW psyche pretty slowly and stealthily. No study article that's for sure. Predictable.
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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  Don't you see that, like I said, the Wt. already bought into the "billions of years" paradigm. The earth was clearly created BEFORE the other heavenly bodies according to Genesis.

  Sigh. It's not clear why you're disagreeing with what I said. Yes, they've always (or for at least the last 80 years or so) said that the universe and the earth may be billions of years old. And they have only ever said that the 'creative days' are thousands of years but never millions or billions of years. The latter point makes their belief a form of day-age creationism.

  They believe that the 'third' and 'fourth' days refer to separate activities after the initial billions of years. For example, they claim in Insight (volume 1, page 528):

  It is also noteworthy that at Genesis 1:16 the Hebrew verb ba·raʼʹ, meaning “create,” is not used. Instead, the Hebrew verb ʽa·sahʹ, meaning “make,” is employed. Since the sun, moon, and stars are included in “the heavens” mentioned in Genesis 1:1, they were created long before Day Four. On the fourth day God proceeded to “make” these celestial bodies occupy a new relationship toward earth’s surface and the expanse above it. When it is said, “God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth,” this would indicate that they now became discernible from the surface of the earth, as though they were in the expanse. Also, the luminaries were to “serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years,” thus later providing guidance for man in various ways.—Ge 1:14.
  

  So... what they say about Genesis 1:16 is nonsense, but it confirms what I have already told you about their belief.
  
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  Sea Breeze

  I think we are on the same understanding here. Watchtower believes that the sun, moon and stars were included in the general statement in 1:1 where it says God made the heavens and the earth.

  Then, they apparently reject the plain language about the sun, moon and stars being created on day 4.
  
  Not sure why they did this.

  The doubtless affect on the average JW is that the stars have been here for billions of years, the earth (lifeless water and rock) has been here for billions of years and this interpretation is needed to make room for deep-age scientist views.
  
  But fossils are still found in rock "billions" of years old. So, it seems like their position fails here too.
  
  
  

  And they have only ever said that the 'creative days' are thousands of years but never millions or billions of years. The latter point makes their belief a form of day-age creationism.

  You may be technically right, but I think with their latest comments they are leaving open the possibility of millions and billions of years of creation time periods (days) for plants and animals.

  WT brochure called "Was Life Created?" (copyright 2010) opens the door for progressive creationism on page 27. There it says:

  "The Bible's narrative allows for the possibility that some major events during each day, or creative period, occurred gradually rather than instantly, perhaps some of them even lasting into the following days.*

  This is certainly opening the door for evolution and even introduces another "over-lapping generation"-style framework.

  When a person leaves the WT. this is the word-view that they take with them.... which is virtually indistinguishable from an atheist world-view in regards to deep-time for the material universe as well as speciation.
  
  
  
  
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  road to nowhere

  One explanation is the water canopy or "gloom"or whatever kept the sun from being distinct then became clear in day 4

  There the things like the bristle cone predating the flood that slipped through.

  They still hold to Adams creation at ? 4026 or whatever. I didn't look it up
• 

  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  You may be technically right, but I think with their latest comments they are leaving open the possibility of millions and billions of years of creation time periods (days) for plants and animals.

  It is certainly possible, and it is in their interests to be generally vague in view of undeniable science on the matter, as well as a desire to distance themselves from other 'creationists'.

  However, their end-times beliefs also require that 'God's day of rest' - the 7th 'day' of the 'creative week' - is a relatively short period of time, which implicitly restricts the length of the other 'creative days'.

  They have also made statements since 2010 that continue to refer to the 'creative days' as only thousands of years.

  Awake!, January 2014, page 12:
  

  Evidently, these “days” of creation lasted many thousands of years.

  Awake!, March 2014, page 5:
  

  • In the Bible account, each of the six creative days could have lasted for thousands of years.

  Insight (2018 revision), volume 1, page 919:

  After Genesis 1:1, 2 (relating to the creation of the heavens and the earth), the book evidently covers a span of thousands of years involved in the preparation of the earth for human habitation
  

  The only exception is that the entries for Creation and Day in the latest printing of Insight say the duration of the 'creative days' was "at least thousands of years" (formatting added).

  The only certainty at this point is they will continue to be vague about it.
  
  
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  Sea Breeze

  Yep, sounds like they are describing the gap theory without coming right out and saying it. (Although they have overtones of progressive creation as well)

  it is in their interests to be generally vague in view of undeniable science on the matter

  40% of Americans believe in a young earth

  55% of Protestant Pastors do as well

  90% of Evangelical Pastors say this is not a primary issue
  
  There is plenty of science to doubt deep age (like commonly found fresh, unfossilized dinosaur bones complete with soft tissue blood vessels and DNA fragments; Carbon 14 Everywhere it is Not supposed to be, and radio halos).

  So, I'm not sure why it is in their interests since other believers get along just fine with differing views. I believe that the existence of WT is best explained as a carefully planned deception designed to teach adherents to reject the sin-atoning value of his blood and Mediatorship. This is unique in virtually all of Christianity. And, if this is their real, albeit hidden objective, then a deep-age tee up for exiting members furthers this goal by preparing subjects for full acceptance of materialism and naturalism.
  
  They compartmentalize too much info and control the study habits of adherents obsessively for there not to be some method to their madness.
  
  I know others view them as simple minded self-absorbed buffoons. But the fact is, that the closest world-view for exiting members is a deep-age view of the earth where the Watchtower has already placed those kinds of scientists as the litmus test to wrap Genesis around. Wt. has historically been somewhat skeptical of medical scientists. Why not deep-age scientists too? Doesn't make sense unless there is some objective.
  
  Deep-age evolutionary scientists, having already been validated by the WT, provides guidance and a least line of resistance for assimilating a world-view without WT.
  
  Personally, I don't care what people CHOOSE to believe. I am for truth and against error, wherever it is. It is essential that everyone have the freedom to pursue things like truth & happiness. The totalitarian regimes of the 20th century should have taught us that if nothing else.
  
  
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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  I believe that the existence of WT is best explained as a carefully planned deception designed to teach adherents to reject the sin-atoning value of his blood and Mediatorship.

  🤦‍♂️ At best, you're giving them too much credit. Though this getting into tinfoil hat territory.
  
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  Sea Breeze

  At best, you're giving them too much credit.

  Possibly. But, I curiously see the same manipulation techniques, verbosity and mis-direction that I saw 45 years ago as a kid, even though all the writers are different.
  
  Anyway, here is a link to thousands of pieces of evidence critical of a deep-age paradigm. I believe it to be the largest repository of peer-reviewed articles on the internet favorable to a literal Genesis reading.

  https://kgov.com/RSR-list-shows
  
  I am organizing a conference for those affected by Wt. teachings Aug. 13-15 in the Austin / San Antonio area. The authors of the website have agreed to come to the conference and speak at 2pm that Saturday.

  
  
  Should be interesting.
  
  
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  dozy

  Not sure they officially abandoned the 49,000 years of creation idea, they just stopped talking about it.
  

  That's a common WT Society tactic - Franz mentions it in one of his books that a GB member ( Schroeder , I think ) if the Society just stop talking about something then the "brothers" soon forget about it. It must be even easier nowadays that the religion is so dumbed down.

  Even the 7,000 year long last creative day , which we assume is still a Society teaching , is looking a bit shaky now and getting even more farcical by the minute. According to "WT bible chronology" (lol) , the first 6,000 years ended in 1975 ( hence the famous" Armageddon is nigh , sell your house" etc nonsense of the late 60's / early 70's ) so already over 45 years of the last 1000 "millennial" reign has gone. This also means Adam was alone for at least 45 years. No wonder he was pleased to see Eve!