Question for any elder/recent ex-elder (page 2)

teejay

OrangeBlossom,

have you tried letting them know that it has gotten
back to you that you and your husband were called
"nobodys" and "losers"? i wonder how they would
handle that.

joelbear

Orange,

My vote is that if you still have a lot of family in, that you bite your lip and go back to the meetings every once in a while and otherwise just lead your life.

Once a week is probably too much. I would try once a month. They are suspicious if they are trying to talk to you that much. Keeping them away is going to make them more suspicious. You need to figure out a way to satisfy them that you are just weak and not worth their time. I have a suspicion some of your relatives may be putting them up to it.

good luck and big hugs

Joel

Amazing

Hi Orange: While I did serve as an Elder, I have been out a few years, but I think I can give you some thoughts that will help. Many years ago, one could escape quietly by ceasing meeting attendance, moving without a forwarding address, and things like that.

In the early 1990s, the Society made it an official 'offense' to miss meetings, by labeling JWs as 'worldly' for doing so. This naturally has led to suspecting JWs who miss meetings as potential apostates. The Society is well aware of the tactics many ex-JWs have used to try and leave quietly, and they have actively tried to stop this.

For example, a man used to be able to resign as an Elder, start missing meetings gredually, and then eventually be forgotten about. But, now the Society will not accept a simple resignation without serious justification by the Elder.

I recommend that if you are trying to slip away quietly, then attend the Sunday meeting and maybe the TMS/Service meetings regularly for a about 3 or 4 weeks. Then, start missing one meeting, and then reduce attendance to every other meeting.

As some posted above, make excuses to be unavailable. Keep these truthful and sincere. Elders are good at sniffing out excuse-itis. If you can, keep your car in your garage, with draps over any window into the garage. When you hear the doorbell ring, learn to check who it is from an angle that will not be seen, and then if it is the Elders, don't answer. Hold this circumspect position for at least 20 to 30 minmutes after they leave.

When I was an Elder, and we were making check-up shepherding calls, we would glance into the windows and see if we could tell if anyone was home. We would drive around the block and make a call or two, and then return to see if we could catch people off guard. that is how we caught one 'sister' with a worldly man visiting at her home. We eventually Disfellowshipped her over the phone. [Hey, that is another one for my Justice Series.] LOL

I would also have a caller-ID on your phone to assure who it is that is calling, or a recorder. You can monitor the caller and not answer. Elders will leave messages, but they will not contain anything damning. So, at some time, like Saturday morning about 10:30 Am, while they are out in Service, return their call and say you were sorry you missed them, but leave nothing about when you will next be available.

If the Elder does not have an answering machine, and he later stops you on the street, you can always say you called but could not leave a message without an answering machine.

If you get a First Class letter (regular mail), you can take different approaches. You can mark it, "Return to Sender", and say on the envelop that the addressee is not at this address. But that is lying. So, I don't recopmmend it. You can drop it in the street US Mail boxes and mark on the envelop, UNable to deliever. That is kind of true, and a toss up as to how you view this. Or you can keep the letter and use it as evidence of harassment. BUT, never under any circumstance ever write anyting to the Elders or the Society. It WILL be used against you. If anything has to be written, have an attorney do it.

Another tactic we used as Elders is to send Certified or Registered Mail. This makes it harder to deal with. What you can do is if the postman knocks at your door, don't answer, because it is likely a certified letter that you will be asked to sign for. Rather, let the postman leave you the slip notice that you have mail at the post office. Then, what I have done is to go to the post office and ask for the item. When they bring out a certified letter from the Elders, then tell the postman at the counter that it must be an error, and then decline to receive it. Don't sign for anything from them.

Finally, sometimes the Elders will have the Society write to you. This can be handled the same way. But there is an exception. Sometimes the Society's lawyers will send a certified letter as though it came from some private law office. [This will be posted in my next Deceptive JW Elders series] But the Law office will be from the east coast, usually New York. So, before accepting the Certified Letter, take down the return name and address and call the NY Bar Association or the New York state office that regulates attorney's, and find out about the lawyer and if he/she works for the Society. You can also call the Society's front desk and ask if 'so-and-so is there, and if they say yes, then hang up. be sure to call from a pay phone using a phone card so as to avoid caller ID.

If it turns out that the laweyer is representing the Society, then you can either forget to go back and pcik up the Certified Letter. or if you do obtain it, then get a lawyer and have him/her respond to them.

I recommend that if at all possible, start reducing meetings and look into moving to another town. If employment is an issue, maybe moving across to another part of town without telling the JWs, and they will be forced to abandon their efforts.

Hope some of ths is useful to you. - Amazing

Enlighted UK

To Patio34

Yes, illness is a brilliant way of missing meetings. My daughter has had heart/lung problems from the very beginning. I was able to use this as a reason for missing many meetings/field service (missed 2 years of assemblies - bliss!!), and decided, to avoid further complications surrounding infection, to go into the Hall at the last minute with my daughter before the meeting started and sit at the back.

Although on one occasion an Elders wife found me sitting in the car and decided to give me some encouragment a short time before my daughter was admitted for open heart surgery (and these are her words) "Well it is better that she die now than later". The really sad thing is that she really believed what she was saying.

I can't believe they can call themselves a loving organisation!!

Enlighted UK

Mulan

I discussed this with my husband (ex-elder) and he said if you go to one meeting a week, that is TOO much. Go once a month, and that will probably keep them off your back. The best thing though, is no information. Answer questions with questions. "Why do you ask?" "Did someone tell you to ask me that?" Or a 'conversation stopper' statement. "I can't imagine why you want to know something so personal." (thanks Ann Landers)

One time, we had a shepherding call, and I asked a question they didn't like the answer to, and they changed the subject to small talk, and left shortly after that.

metatron

My observation here is - don't get too legalistic
with these idiots. If they're out to DF you, they can
do it, just because they feel like it. The procedures
"they are supposed to follow" don't mean much of anything
except to very anal-retentive elders. They can call
any doubt or slight apostacy, they can forget about sending
you a letter, and the Society will back them up 100%.
We keep acting surprized that an organization that
hides child molesters, lies to governments, issues false
prophecy, and sends innocent people into torture and
death often ignores it's own Talmud and treats people
anyway it feels like (short of creating open evidence
for a lawsuit). Big Surprize! I feel like a fool whenever
I catch myself thinking otherwise.

metatron

DB

Recently, one elder asked if they could make a call on my wife and I. Things have not been going well for us lately. BTW, I do have experience serving as an elder. My reply was simply "no", adding that I did not think a visit would be a good idea. I told that elder that if anything changes, I'd let him know. This approach has worked for me.

I do feel bad for you. Yes, there is no doubt that you have been labeled as "weak", etc. It has happened to me as well.

ozziepost

G'day all,

I think a lot of these tactics, whilst tempting, just will not work. Several of these suggestions require conversations that you could hardly expect to have briefly on the front doorstep.

It seems incredible (I confess to saying this with hindsight) that individuals such as our fellow posters here must be subjected to the intimidation of congregation elders.

For what it's worth, I would suggest greeting your callers with "I'm sorry, it's not convenient to talk just now".

Problem is, that a sharp-witted elder will then ask "When would be a convenient time?" (It's straight out of the 'Reasoning' Book.)

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

Mommie Dark

"Problem is, that a sharp-witted elder will then ask "When would be a convenient time?" "

And my reply would be... "I'll call you when I can find the time. Thanks for your concern. Good-bye now." Click. (or close, if he's actually at the door unannounced. Careful not to slam...)

You can politely be too busy, too ill, whatever you choose, and deflect any nosyparker with dignity. And you never have to answer the phone, or the door, unless you want to! They only have power over you to the extent that you co-operate in giving it to them...

ozziepost

MommieDark's comment needs to be emphasized again and again:

They only have power over you to the extent that you co-operate in giving it to them...

Thanks, Mommie dearest

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

Question for any elder/recent ex-elder

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