Hi Lisa and friends: Obviously, during another of my sojourns, like you, I hear a familiar name and thus, I arrive to comment. Firpo Carr's apologetic racial diatribes are pathetic attempts to exhonerate the society from any perceived racism that is observed by an uninformed objective individual. Many black muslims and black christians have in fact noted the overwhelming disparity amongst whites in positions of leadership and oversight, in comparison to blacks, both in JW's and Mormons. Carr is clever and deceptive and also very self-serving. From a very trusted source, and from second and third party accounts, I have heard that Carr fancies himself becoming an internal ethnic messiah for JW's of african-american heritage. I have on it on good sources that after a few drinks, Carr has relayed in confidence that he himself believes he may be either the first or second black JW to reach the governing body. He has also been noted as saying the future of JW's will be extremely intertwined with black issues that the society has ignored for decades, and that this is mostly due to the educated, informed and resourceful leaving the society in droves. Mind you, although a former LA resident, I have never met Carr, nor was I present during these conversations. But, after reading portions of his work, listening to others who claim to have associated with him, met him, spoken to him, worked with him, etc, I believe I have formed a quasi-reliable composite of this aspiring urban religious demagogue. I feel he is dangerous and will use the Jackson situation for training purposes, personal exploitation and for possible financial benefit.
Firpo Carr defending Michael Jackson
by DocBob 19 Replies latest jw friends
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Satanus
This is great. He's a big pain in the a$$ for the wt He must be getting lessons from jesse jackson.
SS
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AlanF
Firpo Carr is a breathtakingly arrogant and self-serving JW. The comparison to Al Sharpton is apt.
From what I've been told by people who know him, he's been married four times and has several children. He moves from JW congregation to congregation, wearing out his welcome in one and moving on to the next. When he arrives he sounds wonderful, but then the BS begins and people gradually catch on to him. How he's managed to avoid disfellowshipping is beyond me, but a tribute to his skills in pulling the wool over people's eyes.
One has only to read the descriptions of his books that Carr publishes in the end pages to see what sort of blowhard he is. Self-promotion is clearly what he's best at. He claims to have a Ph.D., but it's from a correspondence school type diploma mill and in a subject that's not even real. California refuses to accredit the "school" but Hawaii is more lenient and has done so.
It'll be interesting to watch this guy as time goes by.
AlanF
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LDH
UR, AF, how nice to 'see you guys'. Although I've been busy off on personal and family pursuits, if I decided to sharpen my claws, I could take him in about five sentences.
LOL.
Lisa
No fan of Race Card Advocates, Class
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sf
Just wanted to add:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/14/63357/1.ashx :
[ FIRPO CARR and Gloria Allred on MSNBC...
13-Dec-03 18:58
...last night? Anyone?
LOLOLOL DocBob, it was great! He sure has a set of honkers on him. LOLOLOLOL
I tried posting at the very same time he was on tv yet the site was unavailable.
I'll paste what I posted on Slips forum:
[ FYI:
FIRPO CARR IS MICHAEL JACKSONS SPIRITUAL ADVISOR (as reporter chris matthews refers to him as) AND IS ON MSNBC TV NEWS AS I TYPE, WITH GLORIA ALLRED.
He just told allred that she is "nothing but an emotional bag of wind".
FIRPO IS HITTING NEWS CIRCUIT. THIS SHOULD BE INTERESTING; CARR TALKING ABOUT MOLESTATION. LOLOLOLOLOLOL ]
I fired off an email to Gloria right after the program; to 'inform' her of 'things' and show her 'items'. I'll be calling her office Monday to confirm she got the mail and to elaborate. ]
sKally
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AlanB
Well the last thing the GB wants is a reminder of the Jackson - Witness connection, on top of all the other abuse publicity, so Carr is not doing himself any favours if he wants a position in the GB.
This will be interesting....
Very little news on the Jackson - JW connection in the UK, and it seems that what news there has been is balanced in that it is old news that Jackson was a JW and thrown out.
As for the WTBS differentiating between White and Black members, its never been even considered as an issue.
A
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mouthy
YOO HOO Dr BOB!!!!! Have a good Christmas..... Think I am going to take in the GRACE Convention next year instead of PA.... I dont agree that Micheal Jackson is guilty...But love you all any way. we agree to disagree....
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AlanB
Interesting snippet in Freeminds..... Suggests MJ still a witness in 2001.
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sf
-- Beliefnet.com
... My Childhood, My Sabbath, My Freedom Michael Jackson shares his memories of his
Jehovah's ... had been a member of the group but was "disfellowshipped" years ago ...
www.beliefnet.com/story/74/story_7431_1.html - 58k - Cached - Similar pagesThe Story of Sheila Lowe
... bad she had cut off her family - my brother is also disfellowshipped, and of ... I've
done several interviews on the news, Extra, and the Michael Jackson radio show ...
www.exjws.net/pioneers/sheilalowe.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages[Note: The attached index is abridged to list files that are ...
... DCT-DEMN.ART 7.8k Vol 3, No 2 Charles Taze Russell: Disfellowshipped CTR-DISF ... for
Jehovah's Witnesses MA-RULIN.NU 1.6k Vol 11, No 2 Michael Jackson Leaves the ...
www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/apl/jw/pfo-inx.txt - 11k - Cached - Similar pages :[ Jackson Leaves the Watchtower JCKSN-WT.NU 1.9k Vol 7, No 4 ]
04/28/02 - Jehovah's Witness
... And if you leave the Society you’re shunned, disfellowshipped and considered
dead. There is no honorable way out. Michael Jackson the most high profile ...
www.valleyviewseek.org/teach/020428.htm - 40k - Cached - Similar pagesThe Kingdom Hall, The First Visit
... They are disfellowshipped, and we stay away from them so that their ... Michael Jackson,
argurably one of the greatest musicians in comtemporary misic history, was ...
hometown.aol.com/gismodfw/TheKingdomHall.htm - 77k - Cached - Similar pages :[[[
Here's another interesting quote:
"Country Music's in My Blood......Shortly after moving from West Virginia to Pennsylvania, I took up playing guitar. While still in school I formed my first musical group. We played at school functions and box socials for young adults. It was soon evident to me that music has a power to make people happy.....While rock music was taking the country by storm, I kept busy promoting country music. A Nashville booking agency asked me to go on tour with country and western star Jimmy Wakely. After covering much of the eastern United States, we ended up in Hollywood, where I appeared in several movies....Before he left he invited me to a nearby Kingdom Hall. The meeting was that day in a few hours. I went. The Bible discourse was interesting, but what caught my attention was the open discussion of a Bible topic that followed. Racial problems that were plaguing the country were nonexistent here. Blacks, whites, young and old, from all walks of life, were intent on sharing something from their hearts. "This is how it should be!" I thought to myself. After the meeting I was deluged with welcomers. The man who had invited me told me that Jehovah's Witnesses would be glad to study the Scriptures with me in my home. "How soon can we get started?" I responded. We started the next night.... Pressure to Compromise...My intention in moving to Florida was eventually to find some part-time outlet for my music interest. I drifted into a variety band that played two or three nights a week at various clubs. What I didn't realize was that changes in modern music were on a head-on collision course with the Bible principles I was learning....That did it! 'What am I doing in a place like this?' I asked myself. 'What would my newfound Christian companions think?' This final pressure to compromise my moral standards and Bible principles caused me to quit professional country music that night. Sharing.... Music had been much more than just a good living for me—it was in my blood. So quitting it entirely would have been a near impossibility. It didn't come to that. At a picnic of members of our congregation, one brought a fiddle, another a guitar, and so on....Sharing Bible principles and hopes with my neighbors as one of Jehovah's Witnesses can do much more. It should." Awake! 10/22/1983, pp. 24-27.
In these two Awake! magazines, two men developed their musical talents early in their life making music their professional career. However, they gave up their talents later in life when they became involved with the Watchtower organization.
The Watchtower does not want their members focusing on individuals with talents (God-given) They claim it's considered idol worship which takes the place of God, (see "Beware of idolizing creatures," [The Watchtower 5/15/68], pp. 309-314). Members who have musical talents are encouraged to relinquish them to devote more time to the sect. Michael Jackson, argurably one of the greatest musicians in comtemporary misic history, was a former Jehovah's Witness. He was "reproved" for offending the Watchtower's leaders. Jim Penton has to say about Michael Jackson in his book, "Apocalypse Delayed":
"This was only the beginning of the society's action with respect to Michael Jackson, however. On 2 January 1984, the society answered a letter from Michael Pagano of St. Louis, Missouri, by stating: 'The society has been advised that Michael Jackson is a baptized member of the Christian congregation. However his being one of Jehovah's Witnesses should not be construed by anyone to mean that either the Society or congregation with which he is associated approves or endorses the music that he sings or plays, or all the aspects of his life-style." Then in attempting to imply inaccurately that Jackson was a new convert rather than having been raised as a Witness in a Witness home, the society remarked: "As you are well aware, some individuals who reach the point of dedication and baptism still have some worldly habits and ways which characterized the 'old personality' that must be stripped off" James Penton, Apocalypse Delayed, 1988, p. 278
After Michael was "reproved" for making the video "Thriller," that contained occult overtones, he admitted his guilt in the Watchtower's Awake! magazine:
"I Would Never Do It Again!..... In another popular video, Thriller, the performer is seen to transform first into a "cat person," then a dancing "monster." Evidently not wanting viewers to conclude that it promoted spiritism, the film begins with the disclaimer: "Due to my strong personal convictions, I wish to stress that this film in no way endorses a belief in the occult.—Michael Jackson." Nevertheless, it was so realistic that some who saw it admitted that they were horrified at first. What was this short film intended to convey? And how does the performer, Michael Jackson, feel about it in looking back? "I would never do it again!" says Jackson. "I just intended to do a good, fun short film, not to purposely bring to the screen something to scare people or to do anything bad. I want to do what's right. I would never do anything like that again." Why not? "Because a lot of people were offended by it," explains Jackson. "That makes me feel bad. I don't want them to feel that way. I realize now that it wasn't a good idea. I'll never do a video like that again!" He continues: "In fact, I have blocked further distribution of the film over which I have control, including its release in some other countries. There's all kinds of promotional stuff being proposed on Thriller. But I tell them, 'No, no, no. I don't want to do anything on Thriller. No more Thriller.'" Awake! 5/22/84, pp. 19-20
Yet with Michael's wealth, power, and fame, the Watchtower had such a strong grip on his emotions that he eventually admitted his guilt and shame to the Watchtower's leaders. Although Michael Jackson is no longer a Jehovah’s Witness, it would not be surprising if some of the Watchtower's control haunts him to this day. It’s a clear example of how the Watchtower Society controls their members. For example, Michael Jackson had built a private zoo to accommodate his Watchtower fantasy (living in his denial little world) on Paradise Earth. The Watchtower teaches that Jehovah will destroy the earth with its evil and he will bring a Paradise where people and animals would live in harmony.
"The Garden of Eden Restored—Earth Wide.... It would be inconsistent for God to inspire such a prophecy to have only a spiritual meaning and not to reflect such things in actual earthly life. Similarly, Isaiah 65:25 tells us: "The wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull; and as for the serpent, his food will be dust." Does this signify the annihilation of the serpent family out of the global garden of Eden? No, the prophetic statement that the serpent's food "will be dust" means that members of the reptile family will never again be a menace to the life and good health of human creatures. They will have to recognize that humankind is their master who has dominion over everything that moves upon the earth, just as was the case of Adam in the garden of Eden when he named all the animals without fear" Worldwide security, 1986, pp. 174-75
I'm not implying that all Jehovah's Witnesses build a private zoo in their backyards; but , to some degree, they would prefer to dwell in a safe haven that would protect them from the world and its people. This is a clear example of how the Watchtower Society controls its members.
The Watchtower wants to destroy or diminish any members’ talents in order for them to concentrate on selling (placing) Watchtower's publications to homeowners. The Watchtower feels that if members have talents, then they would not take the time to accomplish the Watchtower's agenda. This tactic is part of breaking the person's will.
In any case, the Watchtower's argument concerning talents is totally contrary to Jesus' teachings. In Matthew 25:15-28, Jesus talked about the stewardship of managing talents (money, weight of gold.) given to each servant. On the basis of each servant’s use, Jesus requires certain responsibilities be fulfilled. The principle can be derived from Jesus' parables that God gives us gifts, talents, and abilities to use. If we neglect the talents and fail to give God the glory, we will have to account to Him. I believe the purpose of people's talents, abilities, and gifts are to draw other people to God and give Him the glory. People can acknowledge the sovereignty of God through their gifts, talents, and abilities. ]]]
This 'hit' just happened to be in the series of searches. Some may wish to view it:
Pioneer Family: John Cunningham and His Son Michael Hayes ...
... he never acted on it and was disfellowshipped again as ... the 18th Wisconsin, Company
B by Captain Charles Jackson. Michael and some of his friends boarded at the ...
www.geocities.com/scott_norwood/Cunninghamarticle.html - 99k - Cached - Similar pagessKally
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Jerry Bergman
No wonder Michael is in so much trouble! The following web site is my response to Carr's hateful attacks against me because I left the Witnesses. It is my judgment that Carr is a mentally unbalanced man. http://www.freeminds.org/african/bergman.htm
