by fulltimestudent 16 Replies latest jw friends
While the USA has about 10 massive carriers and is able to project its power worldwide and China (and Russia - although it's land mass allows it to project throughout the Northern Hemisphere) has approximately one carrier then as Bobcat says - it is a regional superpower.
Having said that - Nuclear missile carrying submarines make China (like other nations with same) able to project beyond its region if it all went nuts.
With China a new world authority on the scene, perhaps some older JWs will realize the utter meaningless of portentous Watchtower proclamations relating to the Kings of the North and South.
It does also demonstrate the fact that Bible accounts reflect the political impotence of the Israelites with their being pummelled into submission by either northern, namely Assyrian or Persian powers or by southern; Egypt or Babylonian rule and never being a power themselves. The Hebrew Bible encapsulates the longing for conquest and apocalyptic revenge by the small tribal alliance that was Israel of old.
Why on earth should the ancient Jewish visions of glory be sacred? China's rise to prominence should put the seven world empires and the myth of the "northern and southern kings" to bed forever.
Incidentally, China just launched their second carrier. Apparently they intend to give the US a run for its money, especially where Chinese interests prevail.
The Chinese are also about to deploy a new rode mobile ICBM (DF41) that reportedly has (up to) 10 warheads. They claim the missile has the range to be able to hit any target in the northern hemisphere. I don't know how many they intend to deploy, but it wouldn't take too many before they would be the equal of the US and Russia in that category.
I think Russia and China foresee a super Eurasian economic block that effectively isolates the US, both militarily and economically. They are building both the infrastructure and defensive capability to make that a reality within the next couple of decades.
Sir82: The WTS has claimed that the "seven world powers" were only seven because those were the ones who had a direct impact on "Jehovah's people".
It's why they can get away without mentioning, for example, 17th century Spain or 13th century Mongolia as "world powers" - while those were indeed "world powers" at the time, there were no organized "Jehovah's people" for them to boss around.
Smile!!! I do recall that caveat, that dear old Freddy placed on his interpretation of these scriptural texts. So let's look first at the of whether there were an 'organised people' in all the ages between the first century and the 20th C ? If there were not, is this not a direct contradiction of Matthew 28:19, 20? In that supposedly inspired statement we have Jesus saying:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)
When I was young (in age and the 'truth') I recall the understanding that before 1914-1919 a faithful Christian would have been able to serve god faithfully in any church ( but after 1919 YHWH/JESUS would lead such a person to their 'selected' organisation). I've never seen that thought in print, but also no alternative view of pre-1914 faithfulness.
Obviously in light of the above text, Jesus (if he is who he claimed to be) expected to have faithful followers on earth until the end of the age. So, it is arguable the Mongolian world Empire could have impact on God's people, The 'christians' in Vienna obviously thought so, when they found Mongolian hordes at their gates (as a possible mythical statement). Other Christians however, may have been part of the Mongolian empire, as it is known that many Nestorian christians, lived under the Mongolians, and even served in that empire? Why did Freddy F. choose to ignore that empire? Clearly because to count the Mongolian Empire would stuff up his attempt at interpretation.
And it may be noted that the christian Byzantine Empire (aka the Eastern Roman Empire) even formed an alliance with the Mongols. And, one branch formed the ruling elite of early Russia. Quite clearly, just as influential in history as the British empire, why should they not be included in any march of world powers, if YHWH exists and can see history in advance?
Long before that of course, the Roman Empire had to face an invasion of Steppe nomads, that we know as the Huns. Interestingly, the Huns are thought to be identical to the Xiongnu who formed an confederate Empire to the north of China. They fought the nascent Chinese (if that term has any real meaning prior to the Qin dynasty) and their likely descendants often invaded northern China and formed alternate dynasties. Likely they formed various Korean Kingdoms and quite possibly may have had an influence on Japan. They and their allies brought an end to the Western Roman Empire and some scholarship argues that they formed the elite groups that took over the Frankish and Germanic kingdoms, that came to form modern Germany and France, Quite possibly Freddy knew little of the the great influence that the Huns exercised in history. And again we should ask, why would the influential Huns be excluded from any march of world powers.
But their inclusion would surely stuff up Freddy's concept, just as the political development of Chinese influence is now doing.
So what's left of all the evidence we used to teach to people to 'prove' that we were living in the final generation.
Like all christians, the JWs have no concept of scholarship.
Bobcat : Incidentally, China just launched their second carrier. Apparently they intend to give the US a run for its money, especially where Chinese interests prevail. ... I think Russia and China foresee a super Eurasian economic block that effectively isolates the US, both militarily and economically.
In the Anglosphere, there is a continual emphasis on possible enemies. I spend 3-4 hours every day reading (English) Chinese and Asian news sources. I see nothing that really says the China wants a war with the west. But, I do see a problem with emanating from the USA. Between 10 and 15 tears ago, there was a TV series about a USA Navy carrier formation, in which the captain of the carrier maintained that his ship was a spear pointed at the heart of China. Some have also used that term to describe the heavily armed island of Guam.
And, when we come to more recent times and the hassles over Chinese influence in the south China sea, do many journalists stop to ask about the function of the American base on Okinawa, which is also heavily fortified.
An American battle fleet was first sent to the western Pacific after the end of the Chinese civil war. Even though the American General commanding American forces in China thought that Chiang Kai Shek (Jiang Jieshi was useless (and, had been impressed by the Communist forces in the North, Truman made a decision to back (somewhat discreetly) the Kuomindang (Nationalist) administration after their defeat and escape to Taiwan (traditionally part of China for at least 400 years). The above American fleet was to prevent a mainland invasion of Taiwan.
Obama ( for whatever real reasons) decided to stage a 'pivot' to East Asia and sent the second battle fleet to the area. The Chinese (obviously) have been concerned about America's real intentions, After all, in its history the USA has invaded other countries many times to serve their own interests. That's why China is spending money on a military build-up. Why should they invade any other nation? The Chinese government knows there are better ways to influence events and nations, and that I think is what Bobcat is referring to, when he wrote:
I think Russia and China foresee a super Eurasian economic block that effectively isolates the US, both militarily and economically. They are building both the infrastructure and defensive capability to make that a reality within the next couple of decades.
The OBOR (one belt and one road) is a Chinese attempt to build a trade bloc, joining east Asia to Europe, they will provide development to all Asian and European nations that want to join. I see no effort to exclude the USA, but if America wants in, it will be as an equal and not as the boss.
There are a few "Ifs, Buts and Maybes" at work in this matter!
Certainly, there is very little to suggest that China's economy will not overtake that of America's within the next 10 to 15 years. Then, with economic dominance would come the very real possibility of military dominance as well.
Throughout history, military dominance almost always followed the achievement of economic success - e.g. Britain, Germany, USA. (the USSR being something of an exception). Conversely, military decline is an inevitable result of economic decline - e.g. Britain, USSR.
This year, China expects to spend 1.3 % of its GDP on defence. That contrasts with America's 2014 defence spending of 3.3% of its GDP.
On the matter of quality versus quantity, there is a saying that - at least in military matters - "Quantity has a quality all of its own." Nazi Germany learned that one the hard way in WWII, following its invasion of the Soviet Union.
At the very least, the situation is likely to very similar to a pair of heavyweight boxers, warily circling each other:
- each one capable of inflicting serious harm on the other, but without a conclusive result.
That may be the most desirable outcome; with each power not confident to initiate a conflict in which there would be no clear-cut winner.
As for where this all sits with Crazy Fred's rantings re. "The King of the North", does it matter? (Yeah, I know I am completely disinterested!)
Fulltimestudent: I see no effort to exclude the USA, but if America wants in, it will be as an equal and not as the boss.
That's the problem US has, in a nutshell! Appreciate your views fts.
