A Mathematic Perspective on Evolution

by Saethydd 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Saethydd

  I would like to apologize in advance if any of my information on the biology side of this discussion is incorrect, because unfortunately it is not my strongest scientific subject on account of my being subtly encouraged to view it with distrust.

  I've recently debated the of subject of evolution with my father, I made the argument that when viewed over several million years random mutation provides a more than adequate explanation for humans having evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees. Then he got this derisive look on his face a waved his hand saying "evolution's explanation for everything is the amount of time involved."

  So I decided I would examine this mathematically. According to evidence, humans diverged from chimps 6-8 millions years ago. (Smithsonian) The average rate of mutation in humans is approximately 10 per generation, meaning that one has approximately 10 base pairs changed in your DNA that one didn't inherit from either parent. (Harvard) The average mammalian genome has approximately 3 billion base pairs.

  So with those demonstrable facts established let us consider the math. I'm going to work under the assumption that each generation of animal produces offspring at the average age of 20, meaning that in 6 million years there will have been 300,000 generations. Multiplying that by 10 for the average number of mutations and then by 2 to factor in both parents, I arrive back at 6 million as the number of base pair changes over this period of time. Now dividing that 6 million by the 3 billion total base pairs only brings me to a total possible change of 0.2% even doubling it to include the chimpanzee's divergence only gets me to 0.4%. Which is only a third of the way to the 1.2% difference that must be explained. Plus this simple equation that I devised doesn't factor in the possibility that not every one of these 6 million changes is unique.

  Now I don't consider it likely that I found a hole in this theory that has been missed by every evolutionary biologist and geneticist over the last 100 years. So does anyone know of a reasonable explanation for this discrepancy? Is there some issue with my math that I am unaware of?
• 

  Finkelstein

  "evolution's explanation for everything is the amount of time involved."

  ....and environmental changes, as its known species evolve according to the environment of which they live , which has to added to the supposed equation if to be valid..
  
• 

  A Ha

  Unfortunately, the math isn't that simple. Brief--and inadequate--summary: Substitution takes place in parallel, not serial, which drastically cuts down time calculations.

  Give this a shot: https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/theres-plenty-of-time-for-evolution/

  The paper it's based upon: http://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22454.full
• 

  Saethydd

  Unfortunately, the math isn't that simple. Brief--and inadequate--summary: Substitution takes place in parallel, not serial, which drastically cuts down time calculations.

  Give this a shot: https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/theres-plenty-of-time-for-evolution/

  The paper it's based upon: http://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22454.full

  Ah thank you, I will examine those articles
  
• 

  anointed1

  Saethydd,

  There is some depth in your argument. Unguided evolution and mutation succeeding against the all-pervasive force of entropy that rules the material world is really a more amazing miracle than creation. The only place where evolution makes sense is Bible because it presents a God who evolved:

  1) He gave a garden of pleasure to first human couple—but they turned unfaithful

  2) He flooded the earth and cleansed the earth of wickedness—yet Noah turned drunkard, cursed Canan that paved the way for slavery

  3) He dried the Jordan river so that Israelites could take over the promised land and performed many other miracles—yet Israelites turned unfaithful

  4) He sent His son who performed many miracles—yet people killed him

  Such unappreciative acts made Him evolve into a God who decided that He would perform no more miracles
• 

  cofty

  Unguided evolution and mutation succeeding against the all-pervasive force of entropy that rules the material world is really a more amazing miracle than creation. - anointed1

  Living things extract energy from their local environment. There is no contradiction between unguided evolution and thermodynamics. In fact there is an interesting hypothesis that thermodynamics makes the emergence of life inevitable. Life accelerates entropy.

  Please tell us which books that present the evidence for evolution you have read. I'm going to make two predictions that have proved accurate many times in the past.

  1 - The honest answer is none

  2 - You won't answer the question.

  Evolution is a fact...
• 

  anointed1

  Among the many books I have read, one that made some sense is

  The Theory of Almost Everything: The Standard Model, the Unsung Triumph of Modern Physics

  However, arguments presented in this book are not convincing.
• 

  Xanthippe

  Such unappreciative acts made Him evolve into a God who decided that He would perform no more miracles

  ..... and this, boys and girls, is why we don't see any miracles today.

  Now which story would you like to hear now, but only if you're very good and sit quietly, fingers on lips.
  
  
• 

  cofty

  Anointed1 - Asked you about which books you have studied that presents the evidence for biological evolution not physics.

  Evolution is a fact.
• 

  Heaven

  Saethydd, clearly, your Father is uneducated about evolution. Perhaps it is time he read an actual science book on the subject.

  Time is only 1 factor and can actually be a relatively short duration for some evolutionary changes instead of billions of years. Are you familiar with the crickets who went silent on the Hawaiian Islands of Kauai and Oahu?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF2bJyCt5i0