Notes from 2001 District Conv.---Friday

by LostMyReligion 42 Replies latest jw friends

dedalus

Could you please send a check in the amount of $1000 to Boston College? Your post just made me puke all over one of their computers.
Dedalus
Snowball

I dont think I'l be attending this year. Last time I went to the Cow Palace assembly to take notes they assigned 4 watchmen to follow me the whole day and placed 14 watchmen around the stage at closing song and prayer. They falsely insinuated that i was there to pass out "literature" even though I had not a shred of anti-WT lit on me. I was absolutely amazed at how paranoid they were. And to think I used to be a watchman! LOL
Wayne Rogers
mb_uh

I am so glad I do not have to put up with this crap any more. I find it hard to believe that you can endure. I can see why they did not want us to go to college, I went to college on a scholarship and I am happier then ever, boy I know that is to be discouraged. Imagine how they would feel if they knew I was going to law school.
SlayerLayer

Thank you so much for posting your notes. I eagerly await more. This is the first time I've really heard anything from conventions since my d'fing. It's really interesting how things that used to make me feel so spiritually upbuilt, now sounds like a load of BS designed to keep the sheep in the pen.
Please post more!
Thanks
"Forget the tribe, my pants have spoken."
Lovingkindness

Thank you " Had enough" for sharing your notes on the DA with us. Yes, it does bring back lots of
memories. I was born and raised a JW and was baptized in 1962 in my teens. My son and I left the
the WTS in 1998. The changes in doctrine at that time really didn't settle with me too well. ( 1914 generation
,Separating of the "sheep from the goats", change in the baptizm vow, etc. As well as the teaching
that it was a sin to miss even one meeting, and if we do, then we should pray for Jehovah to forgive us
of the sin. ( I thought to myself, oh, really? I thought that the meetings were for us, not us, for the
meetings. Here, we go, back to the example of the Scribes and Pharisees all over again; more laws
and policies. I thought that we were not suppose to be under "Law"? I also saw that many among the
elders (not all) actually did not care for us, (the "sheep") but cared more about rules, regulations, positions,
obedience to the Organization. It bothered me to see that some JW seemed to practically idolize the
"FDS" and Organization. I also saw that allot of our money was spent unnecessarily. For instance, the
assembly hall, we met in for circuit assemblies, had a beautiful rug in perfect condition, but the color
was a burnt orange. Someone had decided that we had to replace it with a new one. The money had
to come from us. ( I thought to myself; I thought that we weren't suppose to be materialistic. If someone
wants to change a perfectly good rug, then why don't they do it with their own money?
I noticed partiallity, materialism among elders, who could had the money to quite regularly go on expensive
vacations together, cliques, etc. The love did not come from the elders at the last 3 halls I had attended
but from other Witnesses. ( a minority) I could go into more detail here, but I am sure most here, know
what I mean. So, I began to get discouraged and slowed down in my meeting attendance, and service.
Not one elder came over for 3 years. ( Well, this certainly supported my suspicions and feelings about
their loving care. ) At one of my last meetings I attended, I approached my bookstudy overseer,
(who, by the way, was the Service Overseer for the congregation that year ) and asked him for a
copy of the latest Kingdom Ministry. He frankly told me; " We don't give KM to irregular publishers".
He didn't even offer to make me a copy of his, or to put forth any other kind of effort. We stood there
facing each other, (me somewhat shocked and speechless) finally I told him: "well, I suppose I could
try to borrow my son's KM and make myself a copy. He just said, "I suppose you could do that." ( or
something to that effect.) Well, folks, that did it for me. I then only went to a meeting every now and
then. (Sundays) Seems to me, that it would have went through his mind that to provide me a copy of
the KM might have encouraged me to get to the meetings that the KM for that month, scheduled. ( No,
instead of the encouragment and help, I got "punished.") It dawned on me that those meetings were
not for the weak, spiritually sick, depressed, discouraged, but basically just for the "healthy"; those who did the most
in the congregation, such as the pioneers, and regularly active ones. All a person has to do, is to miss
meetings, and finally you are forgotten. No one really cares. The less you do, the less anyone cares
about you. The more you do, the more you are loved. It was very plain to me that the elders cared
more about their vacations; the pioneers, the image they were making forthemselves, Parents weren't
training their children to show love and consideration to the elderly. ( In the first congregation in that
area I attended, I went to a funeral. There were two sisters who rushed up to me with someone I
hadn't met yet, and when introducing me to her, one sister said " And this is the mother who's son talkes
to the elderly! " ( I thought to myself: " sheesh, what on earth are JW mothers teaching their
children these days?" (!!)
One long time acquaintance, who had spent many years in the Org. and a number of years as a Circuit
Overseer, then served many years as an elder, finally got so old, that he could not do much anymore.
He and his wife spent allot of their time home, and they couldn't get to all the meetings anylonger either.
Very few JW came to visit them. ( this was at my sister's congregation. At that time she had three young
children she was raising as well as auxillary pioneering, yet she would pop in to visit them and see if they
needed anything. She would here the elderly brother's complaints about the neglect they were receiving
from those in the cong. there. Finally, he got so sick, he realized that his life was about spent. He gave
instructions to his wife that when he dies, she was absolutely not to have a memorial service for him at
the kingdom Hall there. ( So he died, and there was no service for him, which made all the JW feel bad when
they learned the reason why. ) Of course, this is not to say that none in the congregation there didn't
care for that dear brother, I understand that the true reason is because the Governing Body, and their
policies, high expectations from the "rank and file" publishers ( incl. elders) keeps them so busy, trying
to "count their time" for the "more important things, like placing books, mags, literature, and counting hours
preparing talks, door to door service, they don't have much time left for the more important things like
the ministry for the "holy ones"; the elderly, widows, orphans, sick, depressed, discouraged, needly, poor,
and so on. I often wonder how much more love would be shown, if we could all count our "time" helping
such ones. I just betcha, that the meeting attendance would naturally "pick up".
So, I suppose you could say that I was finally in a "ripe" postion to listen to my son when he finally got
brave enough to share with me what he had discovered on the internet, and thank God he did!!!
Let me tell you. I have always had strong faith in God, Jesus and the Bible. I also have always believed
that if we put our faith in God, that He would keep us on the straight course. I did not fear Satan, or
ever felt like I was such a weak Christian, ( Especially, after spending so many years in the Org, and all those
meetings, service, etc.) that I could so easily be "misled" or fall a way from God or throw away my faith,
over such a small thing as going on the internet to investigate what my son had been showing me. I
always believed that we had nothing to fear because if the "truth was the truth, then the truth could stand
on it's own. I always remembered the Scriptures: " make sure of all things" ( 1 Thess. 5:21, and "examine
all things". ( 1 Corinthians 2:15) ( by the way, in examining this last Scripture, in the KIT, I learned that
it is not talking about a "spiritual man" for the word "man" is not in that passage, but the word "one" is.
It appears to me, that the "one" it is talking about here is God, not man. And finally, ( for many years, as
a JW as I would read this text, it never made sense to me that a man could not be examined by anyone)
I can understand this Scripture more clearly now. Yes, naturally, a man can be examined, but God cannot.
(just wanted to share that point) So, as most of you know here, it was not something that the so called
"apostates" said that persuaded me to make a change. It was quotes from our own JW past literature
that opened my eyes!!! I could then clearly see, that all those years, the WTS had been hiding their past
teachings from us, one only by omission, but BY TWISTING THE TRUTH, and actually LYING to us!!
Well, for me to tell you that it crushed me is a great understatement. Well, after the state of total shock,
and head spinning, (as well as wishing it was just a terrible nightmare which I could wake up from) I had to
decide on a plan as to what I had to do with this information. Was I to let this completely pull the rug out
from under me and cause it to wreck the faith I had in God, Christ, and the Bible? No. This is because
I never believed that the Organization ever was God. As most of you can understand, I became angry. Not
at God, but at the GB!!! I blamed them. I also blamed them for misleading my faithful JW parents who
for 7 years lived in abject poverty pioneering while living in a tent, with no car, no money (at that time
the rule was that you could not hold down any kind of a job, not even a part time job, because Rutherfore
had made it a rule that if you did, then you show that you did not have faith in God to provide. This came from
a man who lived in a huge mansion on prime real estate on the coast of Southern California, with his wife,
during the years of the depression. But my folks and the "rank and file" could go without, and sacrifice all,
for the WTS. My parents who believed Rutherford, Knorr, and Freddy Franz that they were going to be
Armageddon survivors, because we were living "in the last days", and at the " last tick of the clock striking
midnight." The day before my mother died, she told me that she wondered why the elders neglected them
and why the WTS "keeps dangling the carrot in front of us". Now I know the answer at last!! Praise our
great heavenly Father for opening my son's eyes and my eyes to the real truth! ( yes, and for finally opening my
sister's eyes after two years of helping her) Til I spend my last breath, It is my ministry to see to it that I
reach as many of our JW brothers and sisters as I possibly can with this REAL TRUTH about the
Organization. As I see it, anyone can claim they are "God's channel" but as Jesus' warned, "by their fruits
you will recognize them." I see much bad fruit coming from the GB! The whole WTS began with a huge lie!
The lie that Jesus had returned in 1874! The lie that the resurrection began in 1878! The lie that the heavenly
hope was closed in 1881! The idolization of the pyramid of Gizeh! (and claiming it to be "God's Stone
witness." ) The lies concerning Judge Rutherford doing all he could to follow Russell's last will and
testiment; a bold faced lie! (which the WTS is very much aware of) I found a copy of Russell's will, and
it does not take a genius to easily see just what Rutherford did to completely ursurp and take complete
control of the WTS after Russell died. The proclaimer's book is so ful of lies and twisted truth it is not even
funny. We need to reach as many JW about the truth about the so called truth as we can. ( repetiton for
emphasis! smile) Remember the WTS article "Can You Be True To God Yet Hide The Facts?" ? Well, the WTS has to submit to all the expectations they wrote concerning the other Churches. In the article "Face The Facts" they wrote and I
quote some of it:
" " What results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to
have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm? When persons are in great
danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their
friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may
even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning? If you are
among those seeking to be faithful to God, the issues these questions raise are vital for you today.
Why? because God's servants in every period of history have had to face up to the challenges these
issues present. They have had to expose falsehood and wrongdoing and warn people of dangers and
deception" .... " in the interest of pure worship"
" It would have been far easier to keep silent or say only what people wanted to hear. But faithfulness to God and
love of neighbor moved them to speak. They realized better is a revealed reproof than a concealed
love."
Here is some more:
" The truth Book and 1969 Watchtower says:
"We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious
organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God's Word, or
are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear
from such an examination."
[ 1968 and 1981 revision of the book, The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life p. 13; identical wording
in The Watchtower Mar 15, 1969 p. 166 ]
"Error always seeks the dark, while truth is enhanced by the light. Error never desires to be
investigated. Light always courts a thorough and complete investigation." [Millions Now Living
Will Never Die, on page 13 ]
"You will find valuable information in the older publications." - Our Kingdom Ministry, January,
1988 p. 7 "
"The Catholic Church occupies a very significant position in the world and claims to be the way of
salvation for hundreds of millions of people. Any organization that assumes that position should be
willing to submit to scrutiny and criticism." [Awake! Aug. 22, 1984 p. 28]
The following is what I have learned which is very important for ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TO BE AWARE
OF !:
During the years of 1914-1919 (the years they claimed that Jesus returned and "inspected the temple")
Jesus would have found them preaching and teaching:
1) that he had already came ( in 1874)
2) the resurrection had already began (since 1878)
3) the heavenly door already closed ( in 1881)
( They were preaching and teaching these same things for many years even before 1914 and for many years
after 1919 )
4) A new date for Armageddon ( 1925 ) (preached in 1918 - 1925 )
Armageddon! (1925) ( see proclaimers book pg. 163 par. 2 and pg. 78 par. 2 ) (clever how they broke
up each subject into pieces and scattered it in so many different places in this book to keep a person
from getting the true picture, and which makes it a little harder to clearly see their lies.
difficulty to
see their lies.

years before,and many years later.) I also found out that they were teaching and preaching (from
1918), that millions now living will never die, and that Armageddon was going to come in 1925,
the WTS.
Lovingkindness

Hello again. Sorry for the hodge-podge way my last post entered to this discussion board. I see that the problem may lie upon the fact that as I type, I can't see the whole box we are to type in. I see now, that I should have scrolled to the right when I come to the point I can no longer see where I am typing. I hope that this is much better to read for others now. I want to add more to the last post I entered. (not that my last post wasn't long enough, eh? Haha) I am re-entering my previous message again so it will be much easier to read.
Thank you " Had enough" for sharing your notes on this years District Assembly with us.
Yes, it does bring back allot of memories. I was born and raised a JW and was baptized in 1962 when in my early teens. My son and I left the the WTS not long ago in 1998. The changes in doctrine during the 90's really didn't settle with me too well. ( change in the 1914 generation teaching, change of the separating of the "sheep from the goats" teaching, the change in the baptism vow, as well as the teaching being taught especially from the eighties that it was a sin to miss even one meeting, and if we do, then we should pray for Jehovah to forgive us of the sin. ( I thought to myself, oh, really? I thought that the meetings were for us, not us, for the meetings. Here we go I thought, back to the example of the Scribes and Pharisees all over again; more laws and policies. I thought that we were not suppose to be under "Law"? I also saw that many among the elders (not all) actually did not care for us, (the "sheep") but cared more about the rules, regulations, positions, and their obedience to the Organization. It bothered me to see that some JW seemed to practically idolize the "FDS" and the
Organization.
I also saw that allot of our money was spent unnecessarily. For instance, the assembly hall we met in for our circuit assemblies, had a beautiful rug in perfect condition, but the color was a burnt orange. Someone had decided that we had to replace it with a new one. The money had to come from us. ( I thought to myself; I thought that we weren't suppose to be materialistic?--- If someone wants to change a perfectly good rug, then why don't they do it with their own money? I noticed partiality, and materialism among some of the elders, who , by the way, had enough money to quite regularly go on expensive vacations together, (like Hawaii, Mazatlan, Mexico, etc. ) there were cliques, etc. I have to admit, I did not see much of the love in the congregations, the elders continually gave us talks about, especially coming from the last three Kingdom halls I had attended. I could go into more detail here, but I am sure most here know what I mean. So, I began to get discouraged and slowed down in my meeting attendance, and service. My son became worried about me. (My husband didn't
care, because for many years he just wasn't interested in spiritual things anyway.) I also did not like to see that the Society charged us interest on the money we asked to borrow from them to build Kingdom Halls. (Which we should have been able to build with on the money JW had already donated for that kind of purpose when donating to the "world wide witness work ". The Bible says that we are not to charge interest to our brothers. Even Jesus said so)
Not one elder phoned or came over to visit us for 5 years, except for one elder who oftened phoned because he wanted my husband to do some free work on some cars he was fixing up to sell and make profit on, but not once did he encourage my husband spiritually in any way. ( Well, this certainly supported my suspicions and feelings about their loving concern and care. ) At one of my last meetings I attended, I approached my book study conductor (who, by the way, was the Service Overseer for our congregation that year ) and asked him for a copy of the latest Kingdom Ministry. He frankly told me;
" We don't give KM to irregular publishers". He didn't offer to make me a copy of his, nor did he put forth any effort of any kind for me to obtain one. We stood there facing each other, (me, somewhat shocked and speechless, because this was coming from the elder who conducted the book study I attended, who had not even once phoned me, nor did he ever make a personal visit on me to encourage me, nor once ever approached me to offer any encouragement when he did see me at a
meeting. (!!)
finally I told him: "well, I suppose I could try to borrow my son's KM and make myself a copy. He just said, "I suppose you could do that." ( or something to that effect.) Well, folks, that did it for me. I then only went to a meeting every now and then. (Sundays) Seems to me, that it would have went through his mind that if he provided me with a copy of the KM it might have encouraged me to get to the meetings that month, because now I will have the schedule. ( No, instead of the encouragement and help, I got "punished.") It dawned on me that those meetings were not for the weak, spiritually sick,
depressed, discouraged, but basically just for the "healthy"; those who did the most in the congregation, such as the pioneers, and regularly active ones. All a person has to do, is to regularly miss meetings, until finally you are forgotten. No one really cares. The less you do, the less anyone cares about you. The more you do, the more you are loved. It was very plain to me that the elders cared more about their vacations; the pioneers, the image they were making for themselves, The
good report they could turn in to the Society. Some parents weren't training their children to show love and consideration to the elderly. ( In the first congregation I attended in that area, I went to a funeral. There were two sisters who rushed up to me with someone I hadn't met yet, and when introducing me to her, one sister said " And this is the mother who's son talks to the elderly! " ( I thought to myself: " sheesh, what on earth are JW mothers teaching their children these days?" (!!)
One long time acquaintance our family knew, spent many years in the Organization. A number of those years he served as a circuit overseer, then later, for many years served as an elder, but finally he got so old, that he could not do much any longer. He and his wife then spent allot of their time at home, and they couldn't get to all the meetings any longer either. Very few JW came to visit them. ( this was at my sister's congregation. At that time she had three young children she was raising as well as auxiliary pioneering, yet she would pop in to visit them and see if they needed anything. She would often hear the elderly brother's complaints about the neglect they were receiving from those in the congregation. there. (no doubt, especially, from the elders) Finally, he got so sick, he realized that his life was about spent and that he would soon face death. He gave instructions to his wife that when he dies, she was absolutely not to have a memorial service for him at the kingdom Hall there. ( So he died, and there was no service for him, which made all the JW feel bad when they learned the
reason why. ) Of course, this is not to say that none in the congregation there didn't care for that dear brother, I understand that the true reason is because the Governing Body, and their policies, high expectations from the "rank and file" publishers
( incl. elders) keep them so busy trying to "count their time" (for the more important things?) , like placing books, mags., literature, and counting hours preparing talks, door to door service, they don't have much time left for (the less important things?) helping the elderly, widows, orphans, sick, depressed, discouraged, needy, poor, and so on. I often wonder how much more love there would have been shown, if we could have been allowed to count our "time" helping such ones. I just betcha, that the meeting attendance would have naturally "picked up" quite a bit.
So, I suppose you could say that the condition was ripe for me to listen to my son when he finally got brave enough to share with me what he had discovered on the internet, and thank God he did!!!
Let me tell you. I have always had strong faith in God, Jesus and the Bible. I also have always believed that if we put our faith and trust in God, that He would keep us on the straight course. I did not fear Satan, or ever felt like I was such a weak Christian, ( Especially, after spending so many years in the Org, and all those meetings, service, etc.) that I could so easily be "misled" or fall a way from God or throw away my faith, over such a small thing as going on the internet to investigate
what my son had been showing me. ( yes, it is true that we were misled from some of the real truth, but we were not misled from God or His Son)
I always believed that we had nothing to fear because if the "truth was the truth, then the truth could stand on it's own. I always remembered the Scriptures: " make sure of all things" ( 1 Thessalonians. 5:21, and "examine all things".
( 1 Corinthians 2:15) ( by the way, in examining this last Scripture, in the KIT, I learned that it is not talking about a "spiritual man" for the word "man" is not in that passage, but the word "one" is. It appears to me, that the word "one" it is actually meaning God. ( For many years, I would read this text, and it never made any sense to me that a man could not be examined by anyone. I can now understand this Scripture more clearly. Yes, naturally a man can be examined, but God cannot be) (just wanted to share that point)
So, as most of you know here, it was not anything that the so called "apostates" said, that persuaded me to make a change, it was the quotes from our own past literature that opened my eyes!!! I could then clearly see, that all those years, not only had the WTS been hiding their past teachings from us by omission, and TWISTING THE TRUTH, but they had actually been LYING to us!!
Well, for me to tell you that it really crushed me is a great understatement. (to say the least) After the state of total shock, head spinning, many tears, as well as wishing it was just some terrible nightmare which I could wake up from, I had to decide on a plan as to what I had to do with this information. Was I to let this completely pull the rug out from under me and cause it to wreck the faith and trust I had in God, Christ, and the Bible? No. This is because I never believed that the Organization ever was God. As most of you can understand, I became angry. Not at God, but at the GB! I blamed them. I also blamed them for misleading my faithful JW parents who spent most of their life in the WTS, and for 7 years lived in abject poverty pioneering while living in a tent, with no car,(they pioneered on foot) no money (at that time the rule was that you could not hold down any kind of a job, not even a part time job, because Rutherford had made it a rule that if you did, then you show that you did not have faith in God to provide. This came from a man who lived during that time in a huge mansion on prime real estate on the coast of Southern California, with his wife, during the years of the depression. But my folks and the "rank and file" could go without, and sacrifice all, for the WTS. My parents who believed Rutherford, Knorr, and Freddy Franz that they were going to be Armageddon survivors, because we were living "in the last days", and at the " last tick of the clock striking midnight." The day before my mother died, she told me that she wondered why the elders neglected them and why the WTS "keeps dangling the carrot in front of us". Now I know the answer at last!! Praise our great heavenly Father for opening my son's eyes and my eyes to the real truth! ( yes, and for finally opening my sister's eyes after two years of helping her)
Till I spend my last breath, It is my ministry to see to it that I reach as many of our JW brothers and sisters as I possibly can with this REAL TRUTH about the Organization. They deserve to know, and they should not have to learn about it at a time when it is too late to do anything about it. ( At the time when Jesus reminds the misled about his warning he gave at Matthew 24:24-25: " For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you before hand"
As I see it, anyone can claim they are "God's channel" but just wishful thinking does not make it true. I wonder how many have challenged the WTS to have them show actual proof of what they claim? It also makes me wonder just how many lives were damaged by this Organization, as well as the other strong controlling churches in error all during the past years since the apostles have died.
Jesus' warned, "by their fruits you will recognize them." I see much bad fruit coming from the GB! The whole WTS began with a huge lie! The lie that Jesus had returned in 1874! ( I also see bad fruits coming from some of the other mainstream church preachers and ministers.)
Also the lies that the resurrection began in 1878, that the heavenly hope was closed in 1881! The devotion of much time and effort to the study of the interior of the pyramid of Gizeh! (and the claiming it to be "God's Stone witness." ) The lies concerning Judge Rutherford doing all he could to follow C.T. Russell's Will and Testament which was a bold faced lie! (which the WTS is very much aware of) I found a copy of Russell's will, and it does not take a genius to easily see just what Rutherford did to completely usurp and take complete control of the WTS after Russell died. The proclaimer's book is so full of lies and twisted truth it is not even funny. We need to reach as many JW about the truth about the so called truth as we can. ( repetition for emphasis! smile) Remember the Watchtower article "Can You Be True To God Yet Hide The Facts?" ? Well, the WTS has to submit to all the expectations they wrote concerning the other Churches. In the article they wrote and I quote some of it:
" What results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm? When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning? If you are among those seeking to be faithful to God, the issues these questions raise are vital for you today. Why? because God's servants in every period of history have had to face up to the challenges these issues present. They have had to expose falsehood and wrongdoing and warn people of dangers and deception" .... " in the interest of pure worship"......." It would have been far easier to keep silent or say only what people wanted to hear. But faithfulness to God and love of neighbor moved them to
speak. They realized better is a revealed reproof than a concealed love."
Here is some more:
The truth Book and 1969 Watchtower says:
"We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God's Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination." [ 1968 and 1981 revision of the book, The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life p. 13; identical wording in The Watchtower Mar 15, 1969 p. 166 ]
"Error always seeks the dark, while truth is enhanced by the light. Error never desires to be investigated. Light always courts a thorough and complete investigation." [Millions Now Living Will Never Die, on page 13 ]
"You will find valuable information in the older publications." - Our Kingdom Ministry, January,1988 p. 7 "
"The Catholic Church occupies a very significant position in the world and claims to be the way of salvation for hundreds of millions of people. Any organization that assumes that position should be willing to submit to scrutiny and criticism."
[Awake! Aug. 22, 1984 p. 28]
The following is what I have learned which is very important for ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TO BE
AWARE OF AND TO TELL OTHERS! :
During the years of 1914-1919 (the years they claim that Jesus returned and "inspected the temple") Jesus would have found them preaching and teaching the following:
1) That he had already came ( in 1874)
2) The resurrection had already began (since 1878)
3) The heavenly door already closed ( in 1881)
4) A new date for Armageddon ( 1925 )
( They were preaching and teaching the dates of 1874, and 1878 for many years even before 1914 and for many years after 1919.
They were preaching the new date for Armageddon in 1918 (the year they claim Jesus inspected them) They preached this until all could see it was false in 1925. See proclaimers book pg. 163 par. 2 and pg. 78 par. 2 ) (clever how they broke up each subject into pieces and scattered it in so many different places in this book to keep a person from getting the true picture, and which makes it a little harder to clearly see their lies.
Older publications quotes: ( notice the dates these quotes were written folks )
"Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A. D. according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it..." [ Wt July 15,1905 p. 3576 ]
"Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A.D. according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it..." [The Battle of Armageddon," (SS-4), 1912 ed.,
"We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874 .." [WT May 15 1922 150]
"Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874..." [Wt, January 1, 1924, p. 5]
"The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D." [Prophecy, 1929, p. 65]
"The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as above stated." [The Harp of God p. 236, 1928 edition]
"That the harvest began in 1878, there is ample and convincing proof. The end of the harvest is due in the spring of 1918."
[The Wt, May 1, 1918, p. 6243]
"And it was in 1878, then, that the process of setting up the kingdom began. Then our Lord raised the sleeping saints from the tomb and joined them to himself " [WT Jun 1 1922 p.174]
"Bible prophecy shows that the Lord was due to appear for the second time in the year 1874. Fulfilled prophecy shows beyond a doubt that he did appear in 1874. Fulfilled prophecy is otherwise designated the physical facts; and these facts are indisputable." [WT Nov. 1 1922 p.333]
"There exist, however, well established relationships among the dates of present-truth chronology. These internal connections of the dates impart a much greater strength than can be found in other chronologies. Some of them are of so remarkable a character as clearly to indicate that this chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and divinely corroborated,
present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct." [ Wt July 15,1922, p. 217]
"No one can properly understand the work of God as this present time who does not realize that since 1874, the time of the Lord's return in power, there has been a complete change in God's operations." [Wt, September 15, 1922, p. 278 ]
"As in the type that date - three and a half years after the death of Christ - marked the end of all special favor to the Jew and the beginning of favor to the Gentiles, so we recognize A.D. 1881 as marking the close of the 'high calling, or invitation to the blessing peculiar to this age - to become joint-heirs with Christ and partakers of the divine nature." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 235)
"In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." In its chapter 11, entitled "The Count of the Time," it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spell-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man's existence into the decade of the 1970's. Naturally this did
away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia." [ God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years 1973 p.209, par.55] (Frederick Franz)
( My comment: Did you notice this folks? The belief that Jesus returned in 1874 was not officially done away with (changed) until 1942! )
"It is on the basis of such and so many correspondences - in accordance with the soundest laws known to science - that we affirm that, Scripturaly, scientifically, and historically, present-truth chronology is correct beyond a doubt. Its reliability has been abundantly confirmed by the dates and events of 1874 .. Present-truth chronology is a secure basis on which the consecrated child of God may endeavor to search out things to come." [WT Jun 15 1922]
( My comment here: will you please look up 2 Peter 1:12 in your Kingdom Interlinear translation? (of Greek Scriptures) You will find that C.T. Russell's interpretation of 2 Peter 1:12 is incorrect. It should not be interpreted as " present truth" at all. The correct interpretation is: " the truth that is present in you".
Most of the younger and new ones have no idea of what the Society had preached earlier. I myself didn't realize that they had been preaching an earlier date for Christ's return (1874) (and an earlier resurrection:1878), because the literature talked like they had always expected Jesus' return in 1914.
"No, the truths I present, as God's mouthpiece, were not revealed in visions or dreams, nor by God's audible voice, nor all at once, but gradually, especially since 1870, and particularly since 1880. Neither is this clear unfolding of truth due to any human ingenuity or acuteness of perception, but to the simple fact that God's due time has come; and if I did not speak, and no other agent could be found, the very stones would cry out."
[ Wt 1906 ]
"Brother Russell put the question to three prominent brethren, all of whom replied that they did not know, but were willing to wait and see. When he called upon me I said, Since the year 73 A.D. saw the complete overthrow of nominal Natural Israel in Palestine, so in the parallel year 1918, I infer we should look for the complete overthrow of nominal Spiritual Israel; i.e., the fall of Babylon.' (Rev.18.) Brother Russell replied; 'Exactly. That is exactly the inference to draw.' The conclusion of the
Church's career comes first. (Rev. 3:14.)" [The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 129]
"Whom has God actually used as his prophet?...Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them." [WT Jan. 15, 1959, p. 40-41] (My comment: What "plain facts"? Failed dates? )
"The time must come shortly that the Nations will have to know that really a 'Prophet" of Jehovah was among them."
[WT. 4/1/1972, p.200]
"As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale." [Wt June 15,1964, p. 365]
( Look at this folks! The GB is placing their false prophesies and the wrong teachings not only upon
Jehovah, but also upon us! ).
We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." [Watchtower July 15, 1894, p 266; p 1677]
Here is what was said in the May-15-1961 Watchtower on p.166:
" Then beginning in the 1870's, God began to gather these (wheat) together and in 1919 began the fulfillment of Matthew 24:31, which says, " And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet -sound and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity." The facts show that at that time the call went out for more workers in God's vineyard. This call continued until 1931, when, at the end of the "days" work in
the vineyard, all the workers received their reward, the denarious, the name Jehovah's Witnesses. Matthew 20:1-16." [ Wt. March 15, 1961 p. 166 "Should you partake of the Lord's Evening Meal?" par.3 ] ( here we go again with ..."the facts show" routine. What facts? Prove it! ")
(note: What proof is provided to show that the "denarious" was the name "Jehovah's Witnesses?" Why would they say that "all" the workers received their reward, when the work is not even completed yet today? ( Many today who are now serving God weren't even born in 1931.(Like myself) If the "days" work ended in 1935, then why were we (Jehovah's Witnesses) still witnessing for the past 66 years? Besides, in Jesus' parable, he said that they were paid at the end of the days work, not sometime during it. And as most of us already know, the reward is everlasting life, not the name Jehovah's Witnesses.
"Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?" [WT Apr 1 1919 p.6414]
Paul showed very clearly that God having a people for HIs name was already applied to the early Christians, so it was already applied to Christians many centuries before Jehovah's Witnesses took on the name, Jehovah's Witnesses, yet the early Christians took on only the name "Christians". [ See Acts 11:26 ]
At Acts 15:14-17 James said: " Syme'eon has related thoroughly how God for the first time, turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name "
Also in the matter of the "faithful and discreet slave" or "Steward" Jesus' meant for all to keep awake, to be ready and on the watch. To faithfully be taking care of our master's interests. At Luke 12:41 Peter asks Jesus: " Lord are you saying this illustration to us or to all? " We see that Luke didn't write Jesus' answer to Peter, but Mark did: " But what I say to you, I say to all. Keep on the watch." (see Mark 13:37) So this parable of the faithful and discreet slave who was to keep ready and to stay awake, was to apply to all, everyone, especially those who take the lead:
" For an overseer must be free from accusation as God's steward,........" [ Titus 1:7 ]
1 Cor.4:1: Paul was talking to the Corinthians (who were mostly gentile) and he said: "let a man so appraise us as being subordinates of Christ and stewards of sacred secrets of God. Besides, in this case, what is looked for in stewards, is a man to be found faithful."
1 Peter 4:10: " In proportion as each one has received a gift, use it in ministering to one another as fine stewards of God's undeserved kindness expressed in various ways."
Please see Proclaimer's book pg. 70 in the first paragraph:
" The tract pulled no punches in pointing to the clergy, who were described as " a bigoted class of men who have systematically endeavored to prevent the people from understanding the Bible and to throttle all Bible teaching unless it comes through them."
There is no longer any freedom of speech left among the Witnesses. ( nor freedom of religion granted either, without punishment.)
"One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels
of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the "day and hour"! [WT-Aug 15, 1968 p. 500 ]
"We may be forgetting that, when the `day' comes, it will not change the principle that Christians must at all times take care of all their responsibilities. If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." - [WT July 15, 1976, p. 441] ( Note: This was said AFTER the date of 1975 failed. The WTS did not apologize for misleading us about 1975, nor did they admit that the mistake was theirs, they put the blame on us. )
"For over a century, delightful, correct words of truth covering every aspect of life have been presented in the Watch Tower Society's publications .." [ WT, Dec. 15 1990, p. 26 ]( Note: "over a century" means during the years since 1890]
I will finish this on my next post.
Lovingkindness
Lovingkindness

Hello again. (smile) Here are some more WTS quotes to add to the ones I just shared with you:
"Modesty on the part of the faithful and discreet slave class, commissioned to provide the Christian household with food at the proper time, prevents it from presumptuously running ahead and wildly speculating about things that are still unclear. The slave class strives to avoid being dogmatic. It is not too proud to admit that as of now it cannot answer every question, keeping Proverbs 14:18 clearly in mind. But how thrilling to know that Jehovah, in his own due time and in his own way, will continue to reveal his secrets as to his purposes! Never should we become impatient with Jehovah's arrangement, indiscreetly trying to rush ahead of the Revealer of secrets. How reassuring it is to know that the channel Jehovah is using today does not do so! It is both faithful and discreet." [ WT June 1 97 p.14, par.7]
"Of course, it is easy say that this group acts as a prophet of God, it is another thing to prove it . The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show? [WT. 4/1/1972, p. 197]
"Knowing these things, what will you do? It is obvious that the true God, who is himself 'the God of truth' and hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood. (Psalm 31:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And, really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?" [Is This Life All There Is?-1974 p.46]
"A religion that teaches lies cannot be true." [Wt. 12/1/91 p.7]
We should have no fear in doing this if we put our full trust in Jehovah, as Proverbs 3:5-6 says: " Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, and do not lean upon your own understanding. In all your ways take notice of Him, and He will make your paths straight.
And Proverbs 4:11: " I will instruct you even in the way of wisdom, I will cause you to tread in the tracts of uprightness. When you walk, your pace will not be cramped, and if you run, you will not stumble."
"Abundant peace belongs to those loving your law, and for them there is no stumbling block." (Psalms 119:165)
" Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man to whom no salvation belongs."....." Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help. Whose hope is in Jehovah his God."...." The One keeping trueness, to time indefinite. The One executing judgment for the defrauded ones, the One giving bread to the hungry ones. Jehovah is releasing those who are bound. Jehovah is opening the (the eyes) of the blind ones." Psalms 146:3-8
" It is better to take refuge in Jehovah than to trust in earthling man." ( Psalms 118:8 )
"My son, if you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments with yourself, so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you may incline your heart to discernment. If moreover, you call out for understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah and you will find the very knowledge of God. For Jehovah Himself gives wisdom and out of His mouth there are knowledge and discernment. And for the upright ones He will treasure up practical wisdom. For those walking in integrity He is a shield. Observing the paths of judgment, and He will guard the very way of His loyal ones. In that case you will understand righteousness, and judgment and uprightness, the entire course of what is good. When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, thinking abilities itself will keep guard over you. To deliver you from the bad way, from the man speaking perverse things, from those leaving the paths of righteousness to walk in the way of darkness. (Proverbs 2:1-13 )
" So if *anyone of you* is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for He gives generously *to all* and without reproaching and it will be given to him." (James 1:5)
" Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world." New World Testament" [ 1 John 4:1 ]
As I said, I came up with a plan. I did not want to make the same mistake again ( by putting my trust in man) I took a "time out" and prayerfully studied the Bible (especially the Christian Scriptures. We need to keep asking God for His Holy Spirit to teach us and put our full trust in Him. The big mistake I see that we made was that we completely trusted in men ( the WTS,GB) to teach us what the truth of the Bible is, without going directly to God and praying for His Holy Spirit for Him
to teach and guide us to Bible's truth. The Scriptures show us that God is not far off from each one of us, and that He is waiting for us to put our complete trust and faith in Him and His Son.
Jesus asked his disciples: " Therefore Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go also do you? Simon Peter answered him; "Lord, to whom shall we go away to? You have the sayings of everlasting life." [John 6:67-68 ]
Yes, it is not, "where" shall we go, but to "whom" shall we go. We are to go to Christ, and our heavenly Father. He is our shepherd, and God, our Father is our Great Shepherd of the "sheep".
Warm Christian love, Lovingkindness
PS Waiting for the Governing Body to apologize to us all.... Class.
Copernicus

Dear Lovingkindness:
I really wanted to offer a decent response to your post, but don’t have the time right now. It seems as if you have a lot to say. . . and that’s very understandable. Keeping things pent up inside you for all those years makes their release all that much more satisfying. Yes?
I loved this quote: "Of course, it is easy say that this group acts as a prophet of God, it is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show? [WT. 4/1/1972, p. 197]
Yes, and WHAT does the record show? Ha, ha, ha. The arrogance and sheer audacity apparent in the WTS printed statements boggles even the most jaded mind, don’t you think?
Welcome to this board. I hope it helps.
“Waiting for the Governing Body to apologize to us all.... Class.”
Well my friend, I fear we’re ALL going to be waiting a VERY long time to hear that one! Apologies don’t fit in under their cloak of Christ-like humility
Take care,
Copernicus
Sunnygal41

Yes, same old barf, different year! Gawd, how those notes brought back memories! LOL! But, amazingly......(drum roll please) NO F & G, UH OH, I must really be an apostate now! How quickly it happened....two years out and about! LOL! Free at last, free at last, thank God/dess almighty I'm free at last! 8D
DB

I attended only on Sunday. But the F&G comments do indeed reflect the way I felt while sitting there. I just want to learn about the Bible. Is all the pummeling really needed? By the time the morning session ended, I felt, not "spritually refreshed", but like I had just been beaten over the head. I wish it could be different. As I said, I really like studying and learning about the Bible.

Notes from 2001 District Conv.---Friday

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