Why did Jesus not start his ministry till 30?

by LadyBug 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • think41self
    think41self

    Bugeye's Wife,

    Good question:

    I personally do not believe in the Bible at all. It took me awhile to reach that conclusion. And your point about the 2 disobedient ones in the beginning messing it up for all mankind is the main reason I don't believe the whole thing. It just does not stand up to logical reasoning. Period.

    And I too could have done without witnessing to my peers! My God, how we used to cringe on those occasions when our neighborhood would be assigned to us for the morning. When I was very young, under the age of 10, this was the worst torture imagineable! And my mother, who was a spineless creature unable to speak up for herself, did not enjoy it either, but being the good little submissive female she was, endured it, and drug us 4 kids along as well.

    Oh well...just happy now that I'm sitting home on a fine Sunday morning talking with you fine people instead of sitting at some boring meeting! Woohooo

    think41self

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Esther, yes.

  • teejay
    teejay

    Francoise

    Are you serious or was this tongue in cheek?

    I started but I didn't finish reading it. I got down to the part where
    you said:

    Well, personally I don't think so. I think that the earth is only one of
    thousands of planets for which Christ is responsible (through him
    all things were made).

    I don't have a problem with that. Who knows, you may be right and
    I happen to agree, except for maybe the "Christ" part. So far so
    good…

    You then said:

    And this one was in trouble.

    Oooookay…

    And it was his to retrieve this planet and put it and all who live on it
    back on track toward its original purpose - and his - living up to the
    will of the Father.

    Okay, see? Right there, right there. THAT'S when you lost me. I
    mean, it's fine if you were serious. I was just wondering: ARE YOU
    SERIOUS?

    tj

  • Francois
    Francois

    Hmmm. I didn't expect to receive so many questions.

    First and foremost, I was very careful to state very clearly that what I was writing was my opinion. "Well, personally I don't think so," were my exact words. I said I had a different "perspective," and I said more than once, "I think..." thus and such. I don't know what else I can do to indicate that I'm expressing an opinion, a perspective, a personal truth, my "take" on something. Writers do that, y'know. And since writer's are in love with words, we tend to use a lot of 'em.

    BE's Wife: "Why then not get rid of the 2 'disobedient' ones in the beginning and start again instead of allowing the horrendous things that were carried on for millennia. Billions of people dying in the process. Seems more logical to me."

    Beats me. I don't pretend to know the mind of God. But since you ask, I DO have an, um, opinion about it. Perhaps God loved them and it went against his nature to just kill off problematic children. I don't think what we know about Adam and Eve is factual. And we do bring a LOT of problems on ourselves; the problems of our own choosing. We can't pass along one simple sentence from person to person to person twenty times in a parlor game and get the same sentence out at the end that went in at the beginning. And we think we can trust and entire book full of stuff to be accurate over four thousand years? C'mon.

    But I do think our understanding of creation, of who and what Adam and Eve were, why Jesus came here, where we're going, and lots of other basics of spiritual reality is fatally flawed. I have a feeling Adam and Eve were not the original pair and that there were plenty of other people here when they got here. Hell, I believe a lotta non-standard stuff that makes more sense (to me) than does the bible.

    "Would not Jesus have been watching this 'planet' and know what was going on here already?" Yes, and that's just why he came here. He knew he was needed.

    Knowing about something isn't the same thing as knowing something. Knowledge is one thing, experience is another. It's why many don't get the point about the scripture mistranslation of, "This means everlasting life, knowing God..." vs. "This means everlasting life, taking in knowledge about God..." Big, big difference. And the implication of that first one is that God can be known. And if He can be known, I aim to find out how I can know Him. And I think I've made some small progress in that area. HINT: Remember all those scriptures that say: "Be still and know"?

    "Such a great man, such wonderful works, yet if he had such an impact on them wouldn't they have been writing a journal?" You notice that Jesus left no writing behind on this planet. You remember that the only recorded instance of his writing anything while he was here was written in the sand? We would still be worshipping scraps of paper that he touched. And interpreting anything he wrote seven ways from Sunday. And killing each other over those differences. Right?

    I think it's reasonable to believe that Jesus didn't keep a journal, didn't write anything down etc. So perhaps they emulated the Master? We don't know. It's an interesting question, though.

    Congratulations, BEW. I have a feeling it won't be too long for you either. One of the things I find in the NT that I believe in is the statement, "Knock and it shall be opened. Ask and it shall be given." You're knocking and asking. How can you fail? I'm a seeker too, and I'd be willing to show you what I've found, if you'd be willing to show me what you've found. Deal?

    TeeJay: You bet I'm serious. But having said that, I feel certain you have a whole set of follow-up observations and questions?

    Esther: Well, religion surely has been selling opinion like it was the real thing all this time. See second paragraph.

    6of9: Thanks, I think. And, not to put too fine a point on it, it isn't fiction, it's commentary and opinion. And frankly, if Satan says, "two plus two equals four," then I'd be forced to agree. The truth is the truth. I think we ought to pitch the Hebrew scriptures in its entirety, and about 95% of the Greek-Aramaic scriptures. And please read any movie review, book or play review, etc. Critics ALWAYS write like they know what they're talking about, and I'm nothing if not a critic of religion and of its many textual support.

    "God is Love," I agree with. The idea that you preserve your life by giving up your life is something else I can agree with. The sermon on the mount I think is spot on. The two great commendments of Jesus are on the top of my list. There are a few things in the NT I can go for. And even some of Paul's stuff. But lots of Paul's stuff leaves me totally cold. Like 100% of his comments about women and their roles. We have lost the viewpoint and outlook of half, HALF, of our best spiritual thinkers because of Paul's misogynistic opinions. And we are the poorer for it. And I despise organized religion...same as you?

    And to everyone who has slogged through all this. Thanks for letting me express myself and to do in such volume!! As mentioned elsewhere, I'm a writer and I love to write, and to express myself. Such expression was stultified, suppressed for years in the Borg. Now I'm making up for lost time. I can be laconic, too. But I try to keep that to a minimum.

  • kes152
    kes152

    Greetings Francoise,

    you said:

    "Jesus came here to reveal:

    God to Man
    Man to God
    Man to himself"

    Jesus did NOT come to reveal God to man. Only those who believed in Jesus, the Father revealed Jesus to these ones. Once Jesus was revealed, IF JESUS' WANTS TO and ONLY if Jesus wants to, he will reveal the Father to those of whom he chooses to.

    Jesus did not reveal "Man to God" for there was nothing for Jesus to reveal to God. God already "knew them all." Nor did Jesus reveal "Man to himself" because his Father's spirit revealed everything about man to Jesus.

    Mark 2:8
    John 2:24, 25
    Matthew 11:27
    Luke 10:22

    Jesus came to give his soul as a ranson in behalf of many, and to be a slave to his Father, then to everyone.

    It was John the Immerser who "revealed" Jesus to Israel. And it was the Father who revealed Jesus both to Israel AND to the apostles. Jesus spoke, but the apostles "believed" that he was the One.

    Just as the Father revealed Jesus to Peter, so he did to John, James, and the others.

    John 1:31, 41
    Matthew 16:17
    Matthew 17:1, 5
    Matthew 8:17

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    kes,

    what part of francoise's sentence about not believing 95% of the NT did you not understand?!?

    BEW,

    Your question is quite thought-provoking and I think that several posters are right on when they say that a Jewish male was not thought to have reached maturity and to have demonstrated responsibility until that age.

    Why the WTBTS encourages children to get baptized is beyond me. Presently the Jewish faith makes them wait until at least 13 to be considered members of the congregation.

    So, say, 13 before you can become an unbaptized publisher and actually preach yourself? And 30 before you can dedicate your life?
    And (sorta like the Mormons, only for longer, because they ARE, after all, JWs) 3-1/2 years spent in the full-time ministry? Makes more sense, no?, if one is following in Christ's footsteps?

    I thought it interesting that in the news article expatbrit posted about the Chicago conventions a statement was made by a WT spokesperson that "all adult witnesses who are baptized are considered ordained ministers." IS it only adult witnesses that are so considered? (And does that make them all clergy, or what?!! It's so d&*m confusing!!!) Or are ALL baptized witnesses, regardless of age, ordained ministers?

    Francois/e,

    I really liked the opinions you expressed. Not sure I can go along with all of it, but I, too, am seeking.... it's interesting to read others' deeply-felt conclusions thus far along the search path. I so WANT to believe in a God/dess of Unselfish Love!

    outnfree

  • kes152
    kes152

    outnfree,

    I can respect and appreciate that. However, i must speak what is true regarding the Son of God ... who he truly is.

    When you come to actually "know" someone, you can't help but speak "truth" about that one.

    Peace to you,
    Aaron

  • Francois
    Francois

    Aaron (Kes):

    We are all entitled to our opinions, aren't we now?

    Francois

  • terraly
    terraly

    Very interesting Francoise, and very well written.

    Jesus did not reveal "Man to God" for there was nothing for Jesus to reveal to God. God already "knew them all." Nor did Jesus reveal "Man to himself" because his Father's spirit revealed everything about man to Jesus.

    I disagree Kes, it's a matter of subjective versus objective knowledge. See, people know logically that the earth is a small blue-green orb hurtling around the sun, but still when they're up in space looking down on our home they really know this- the knowledge becomes experienced knowledge, which is much more powerful.

    Same thing in Jesus' case- God may have known what it was like to be human on an itellectual level, even from talking with humans, but to actually be a human is a very different sort of knowledge. That's why I've always liked the idea that Jesus really was God incarnate, God actually getting subjective, first-hand knowledge of what it was like to be human.

    I'd like to think that any God I worship would have experienced what it's like to be me- not just "know" it, no matter how much more fully God can know something, there's nothing like experience.

  • Francois
    Francois

    Outnfree:

    You said, "I really liked the opinions you expressed. Not sure I can go along with all of it, but I, too, am seeking.... it's interesting to read others' deeply-felt conclusions thus far along the search path. I so WANT to believe in a God/dess of Unselfish Love!"

    Thank you for your remarks about the parts you did like.

    And please know that I am not representing that my opinions are any more than just that - opinions. But I do feel that these opinions are based on an open-minded and sincere search for the maximum of truth my mortal, finite, time-bound mind can comprehend.

    So while I don't by any means think I've come close to comprehending what's available to my mind even now, I do feel that I have far surpassed a five-thousand year-old concept of God, and have cleared away the opaque accretions of enculturated overlays covering the basic truths about Him. No mean feat.

    But there's SO MUCH to learn. Compared to the near-infinity of what's left to learn, my measely accomplishment is a bare start. Guess they don't call it the Infinite Path for nothing, huh?

    I'd like to make the same deal with you that I offered to BugEye's Wife: I'll share what I've learned, discovered, with you and you reciprocate. Interested?

    Francois

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