Thanks, stillajwelder,
As usual Blondie absolutely brilliant. Thanks for all your hard work
But as a woman, my "brilliance" had not place in the WTS (in spite of what they say in this article.)
Very funny Bisous, you have to start putting kleenex next to the toilet for those times the children/hubbie have taken the last sheet of toilet paper. You could get cancer using the WT magazines.
The only thing these tracts are good for is emergency back-up when one runs out of t.p.
Thanks kj,
And if your congregation didn't show you appreciation, you can be assured you are VERY appreciated here.
Actually, I always had many come up and thank me in specifics for my comments. I was rotated to book studies encourage commenting. The only way I could interest myself in the same old pablum was to do extra research. I liked skating near the edge too. I had a sister tell me how much more boring the meetings are now that I don?t attend?by iron, iron is sharpened. Too many dull blades at the KH.
Sweet Odrade, I understand the frustration. It started when Adam was recorded to have said to God that it was Eve?s fault that Adam ate the fruit. Men have been punishing women based on that account for thousands of years.
The WTS follows the example of many religions who use the Bible to punish women for that mistake.
Yes, it is maddening, Panda.
It amazes me that young women will sit and answer at the WT study... don't they think?
Maybe, but if they want to find a husband, they better pretend to be submissive at least until the wedding vows are said, then watch out!
Still, yes, I found this to be true too.
I remember one older sister (elders wife) calling assemblies/conventions a meat market (privately not in a watchtower)-- because all the sisters paraded themselves to get the attention of the few available brothers
We called it "trolling." How else can the poor sisters find a husband. Usually, there is no one in their home congregation and unless they live in a larger city with several congregations to "visit," how will they meet new people except at the assemblies/conventions? They only have 2 to 3 days to make an impression.
Hi Ann,
loved the point you made about the word 'evidently.' I've noticed the same thing! Whenever 'evidently,' 'without doubt' and 'apparently' appear, loud warning bells sound in my head!
A good study tool to use for any WT publication. You can be sure it is not something in the Bible but they make you out to be an idiot if you don?t accept their interpretation.
Maverick,
how?s that daughter of yours?
On another thread the point was made about how the WTS was suffering from a lack of MS's to refill the Elder ranks. Heaven forbid they ever consider using women! I think they are afriad these women might do as well or even a better job than the average male dud! Among the worldly young, the women are far more competent that most of the men are!
Think about it, if they used women, the men would just sit back even more and not do anything. Would the young men even want to be mike handlers if they saw their older sister doing it? Better that the remaining elders work twice as hard. There was an argument in one congregation about using sisters to be mike handlers. The CO said absolutely not, never. If it meant the elders would be handling mikes, then so be it.
Jgnat
, many good points, I?ll just single this one out.
If you are among those who faithfully serve Jehovah without the support of a Christian mate
(Translated, single women have no means to advance "spiritually"),
JW women know this. That is why they are so concerned about the spiritual status of the man they are dating. Is he being used as a mike handler, attendant, MS, or the real catch an elder? The only status a single sister can have is as a regular pioneer. If she is lucky and lives in the same congregation as her father and he is an elder, she has a little status.
Good observation, Willy, on the need to use other Bibles when studying.
This was the origin of the custom in Israel (40) that the Israelite women would go out for four days every year to grieve for the daughter of Jephthah...." (TEV)
"Grieve" rather than "commend" makes a world of difference in the emotional content of this event.
Judges 11:40 (MSG)
that for four days every year the young women of Israel went out to
mourn for the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Judges 11:40 (AMP)
That the daughters of Israel went yearly to mourn the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in
Judges 11:40 (NLT)
for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter.
Judges 11:40 (KJV)
That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year
Judges 11:40 (CEV)
every year, Israelite girls walk around for four days, weeping for [
1
] Jephthah's daughter.
Scully,
I think that is because Jael acted without trying to check with husband. I always wondered if those women following Jesus around had husbands. How could they leave their homes and children? I found out that some of them were married. Rahab had no husband, Abigail tried to work through her husband. Deborah had a husband but I don?t see her running to him to run her judgments past him for his approval. Why wasn?t he qualified to do what she was doing? In the WTS, Deborah wouldn?t even be allowed to be a mike handler? Here the WTS weasel words about Deborah. Do you see the doublespeak?
WT 11/1/80 p 30-31 Questions
from Readers?
In view of Judges 4:4, can Deborah be viewed as one of the judges of ancient Israel, along with Samson, Gideon and others?The Bible account at Judges 4:4 reads: "Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that particular time." Earlier, the account at Judges 2:16 says: "Jehovah would raise up judges, and they would save them out of the hand of their pillagers." Thus the main work of a judge would be to save Israel from their enemies. It appears, then, that the phrase at Judges 4:4 about Deborah "judging Israel at that particular time" does not mean that Deborah was usurping the place of a man and that she was fulfilling all the duties of a judge in Israel. Unlike Samuel, Gideon or other judges she did not judge all Israel and act as their deliverer or "savior." In fact, at Nehemiah 9:27 the term "saviors" is used rather than "judges."?Compare Judges 3:9, 15.
Being a prophetess, Deborah told Barak what Jehovah?s will was in the matter. She was used by Jehovah to call Barak to serve as judge for the overthrow of the enemy . Barak served as the "savior" provided by Jehovah, not Deborah, although Barak asked that Deborah go with him (would he have gone without her?????). So it is most unlikely that Deborah performed all the duties usually associated with the office of a judge in Israel, the most prominent of which was leading the tribes in warfare against Jehovah?s enemies.
Thus, while Deborah can properly be described as a prophetess, it is only in a general sense that she was doing a measure of judging in Israel; she was not taking the full place of a male judge in Israel. Judges 4:5 says: "She was dwelling under Deborah?s palm tree between Ramah and Bethel in the mountainous region of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel would go up to her for judgment." As for the matter of giving the Israelites Jehovah?s answer to difficult problems that would come up, this she could do because of Jehovah?s spirit being upon her.
In contrast, Barak certainly was one who effected deliverance for the Israelites. The reasonable conclusion to draw is that Barak was a judge in the full sense of the word , and this is in accord with Hebrews 11:32, where he ranks among the judges of ancient Israel. Thus the book Aid to Bible Understanding, on page 980, in listing the judges of Israel, does not include Deborah.
Soledad, I understand. My father was an "unbeliever" and we were treated like dirt.
during these studies because they made her feel so guilty, like she was no good or she wasn't doing enough. never mind that she worked 2 jobs and went to the damn meetings and field service and fed those good for nothing bethelites! we were always treated like outcasts only because my father opposed!
The WTS speaks the words but does not do. Regarding the Pharisees, Jesus said:
Matthew
23:3Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform.
Eyebrow2, I?m so sorry for your pain then. I was a single sister too, no kids. I would hear brothers say they wouldn?t even consider a single sister if she wasn?t pioneering. Not that they were pioneering!
As long as he made his meetings and 1o hours a month it was okay...but god forbid if she had no kids and was not pioneering then she must be a selfish person...
Greetings, SM62,
The WTS have completely changed the meaning of this scripture, giving their own warped interpretation.
I?m sure that this is necessary because we can?t have any Jezebels trying to use this scripture to prove women had status in the Christian congregation. One elder once tried to be a scholar and asked if they had husbands. One sister said no, because they were listed as virgins. He made the connection that a woman with a husband could not be a prophetess because of the headship arrangement. I raised my hand and tactfully pointed out that Huldah, Deborah and Isaiah?s wife all had husbands and were prophetesses, so a woman did not have to be unwed to be a prophetess. Boy, did his face get red and it wasn?t from embarrassment.
I miss those days!
Ann, great point,
Giving poor Vashti bad press again.
If our husbands threw a big party for their male pals that lasted for days and they all got drunk out of their skulls, then our husbands told us to parade in front of them all, naked or in our underwear, to 'show off our beauty', do you think any of us would say, "Yes dear, right away"?
I can remember the brothers asking my mother, "He didn?t ask you to violate one of God?s laws did he," after she tried to explain about the verbal and emotional abuse. I suppose they would have expected my mother to obey my father and dance in her underwear in front of his friends.
Blondie, overwhelmed by the great comments and tidbits I can store away.
