There certainly is not consensus as you suggest. I love it when they say "liberals" dates it to.... In fact there is a very real possibilty that Peter is a literary construct to reassign story elements from Mary M and a Nazareen (Jewish sect) named Cephus to a character that could be used to suport Roman Church supremacy. The book of Acts is dated much later by many scholars (a "radical" example is Earl Doherty)and it's contents being a revised history to bridge the sects of Christianity using elements of history wedded to Proto Catholic agenda. If you wish to learn what this is based upon do some googling. Church Father quotes do not impress many people as they are reworked and edited extensively. The only time they appear useful is when they retain details that would appear to be opposed to the later Orthodoxy. As this sugggests an early opinion, not that of the later editors.
The Crucifixion in History
by hooberus 43 Replies latest watchtower bible
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JCanon
It is interesting these challenges to the NT are coming forward, but likely empty challenges since per Scripture both the largest contributors to the NT, John and Paul never died but survived through the ages until our day. It would seem part of the reason for that survival (along with others, of course) was to preserve some members of the original Christian congregation and to safeguard some irreplaceable ancient records which, at some time presumably they would come to light to establish the authentic truth. Granted most will automatically dismiss this as fancy but if we presume Christ thought this through and used secret societies of Christians to preserve ancient records through the ages then we have to suppose that they will surface at some point. Just a note of caution before we go off the deep end with clever arguments and speculative documents prophesied to arrive at the time of the "apostasy".
JC
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peacefulpete
I was just thinking about the Deut directive to hang a despised criminal upon a stake. Hooberus you suggest this was prophetic of Jesus' death on a cross,yet the person was in fact not killed upon the stake/pole. His/her dead body was displayed upon it for humiliation/deterent purposes. Is this not an objection you had to Innana being seen as a precedent? Also if the Deut passage refers to a pole rather than a cross, is there technically a crucifixion being "foreshadowed"? Why does the Deut passage appear to you as relevant while the Innana story could not be? Does the Deut passage speak of the dead being in the underworld for 3 days then resurrected to benefit mankind like the Innana story does? It seems to me that the Innana story makes an even better case for "prophecy" than the Deut passage.
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hooberus
I was just thinking about the Deut directive to hang a despised criminal upon a stake. Hooberus you suggest this was prophetic of Jesus' death on a cross,yet the person was in fact not killed upon the stake/pole. His/her dead body was displayed upon it for humiliation/deterent purposes.
Paul applied the curse of hanging on a tree in Deuteronomy to the cross of Jesus Christ. Jesus was shown to take the curse of the law in our place.
Is this not an objection you had to Innana being seen as a precedent?
Inanna was not hung on a tree or cross, nor does it appear that Inanna was hung on a stake (like the watchtower presents impalement). Inanna was apparently hung on a protruding piercing object jutting from a wall.
Also if the Deut passage refers to a pole rather than a cross, is there technically a crucifixion being "foreshadowed"?
The Deuteronomy passage probably referrs to a regular tree.
Why does the Deut passage appear to you as relevant while the Innana story could not be?
The Deuteronomy passage is directly referred to in the New Testament, wheras "Inanna on a wall" is not. I don't see where the death of Inanna has much to do with the Old Testament hanging on a tree, and I see it having nothing to do with the historical crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Does the Deut passage speak of the dead being in the underworld for 3 days then resurrected to benefit mankind like the Innana story does? It seems to me that the Innana story makes an even better case for "prophecy" than the Deut passage.
The subject of the resurrection is another topic. However, Jesus directly quoted Jonah as prophetic of his resurrection so there was no need for borrowing from Inanna.