Do jws realise the amount of control the watctower has over them?

by Gadget 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Gadget

  I was talking to my ex-girlfriend today, and we got on about the witnesses. She refuted how much control the watchtower has over each witness, saying that the watchtower is only a guide as to what to do, everybody has to make their own mind up. Is this a general view of witnesses? Do most people not see how controling and strict it is? What did you think when you were a witness?

  And I think I'm making some progress talking to her, she said a lot of the things I said to her made sense, and used the phrase 'even if I stop going to meetings'. She wouldn't look at the qoutes site or anything else on the net, but has been looking at the articles that I noted from the qoutes site direct from the publications.
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  seattleniceguy

  Hi Gadget,

  Yes, I think that the belief that Witnesses think for themselves is one of the strongest and most pervasive myths in the organization right now.

  I have a friend who, of course, dutifully avoids apostate literature. In his opinion, no one is forcing him to do so. He's scanned it a few times and become convinced that there is nothing of value. "I just don't feel like there's much benefit to getting the latest issue of the Apostate Quarterly," he states with an air of total reasonableness.

  I think that Witnesses who are attracted to rational thought sincerely believe that their belief system has a rational basis. Each time I tried to reason with such Witnesses, the response was a dismissive smile and some comment like, "No, no. I choose the course that I take. Nobody's forcing me to do anything." The only thing I can say to that is that when a mugger sticks a gun in your ribs and asks you to hand over your money, you choose to do that as well. It doesn't mean that you would like to make that choice or that you appreciate the "encouragement."

  Hope your ex continues to think and perhaps one day becomes an X. :)

  SNG
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  Gadget

  I suppose the strongest form of mind control is making someone belive they're doing it because they want to.
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  franklin J

  no, they have no idea.

  And when I was a good witness, I would never even have contemplated that possibility.
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  Euphemism

  I remember a discussion I had with a "liberal" dub. (She watches R-rated movies, swears, etc... even reads "apostate" material). She said to me: "I don't understand why you keep saying that the WTS is controlling." She kept insisting that she did whatever she wanted to do.

  I think that by breaking a few of the rules, they may create an illusion of freedom for themselves, and thus not realize how hemmed in their life actually is. I know that's what I did when I was a dub.
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  mustang

  NO, I don't think they do. Consider this:

  "... saying that the watchtower is only a guide as to what to do, everybody has to make their own mind up. "

  OK, I suppose so, if... you consider effectively being told the following things are real "free choices":

  "Sure, you are free to jump out of this airplane without a parachute."

  "But the Org. is the Ark and if you are worldly, you will drown."

  "Sure, got ahead & 'hit the road, Jack'; BTW, are you sure the 'Big A' isn't next week?"

  If the substance of those doesn't work, they pull something that amounts to this: "OK, we'll kick you out and hold your relatives hostage by keeping them from talking to you."

  Or, the one I got:

  A 'wannabe MS'/'bucking for promotion' thug leans over during a meeting and whispers in my ear: "if you don't straighten up, we'll have to get rid of you".

  I guess he didn't like my cowboy boots, long hair, the fact that I hadn't pIONEERED for a couple of years, wasn't a sERVANT any more and that he still wasn't gonna get my old slot :)

  I smiled, left the meeting early, pulled on my Army jacket, jumped on the motorcycle and hit the road. Later, I left the Borg under my own steam and on my own schedule, dirtbag.

  Or what I got handed to me at a close relatives' funeral:

  The eLDER that preached the service walked by me and said "everybody's got to take a stand".

  Actually, I don't have to: considering that this farce-face was arrested by the FBI for a Federal crime while being an eLDER and the Judge mentioned that at his sentencing, tells me that God owes me a free-pass for the BS dealt out in his name.

  The JW's might be right about that strange "freedom ain't really freedom" logic they puked up in the 80's: there are no choices in the Borg WITHOUT COERCION.

  Mustang
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  reboot

  Hi Gadget.

  The phrase I used to hear constantly was 'We have to think for ourselves; but the bible is there for our guidance, lets see what jehovah has to say about it'

  It was used a lot, and if those kinds of phrases were repeated often enough I think they tended to be called back to your mind when ever you questioned something.

  So, if you had a niggling doubt or were being told something you'd always try to fit it in to the structure of the way you though the world was. you'd try to think it out for yourself....then you'd go to the bible and see what Jehovah says' and think you'd made a rational, impartial decision.

  So, no, I don't think the average witness can think for themselves because the methods they're encouraged to use to think only re-affirm the society's views.

  But when you do start to question, really think and find other sources you can trust...your thought processes can start to work through any doubts.

  And we're all proof of that working really well, eventually.

  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you
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  Stephanus

  They love rationalising away the Borg's control and owning it as their own free will. I asked some Dub ladies about what they're not allowed to read; they said it's not that they're not allowed to read that stuff, they just wouldn't want to. Same for attending funerals, etc. in other churches. They said something about "We're accused of being brainwashed, but we think of our brains having been washed clean".
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  Tinkerbell4125

  Well, I grew up in the borg. and as bad as I hate to admit it, I really believed the WTS was the *truth*. I believe that my siblins truly believe that they are right and that I have turned my back on Jehovah. Sad but true.
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  A Paduan

  I suppose they don't trust themselves - they've been taught not to trust themselves, but unfortunately that has come to include goodness as well - in darkness of mind they even think themselves more clever.

  Strange though, because I don't seem to be able to read a single paragraph of wt speak without looking at bullshit everywhere - for adults the self-subterfuging must be intertwined with desires of some sort.