"THE GLORIOUS ONES" WT TWISTING THE ...

ARoarer

I have been reading from other Bibles and comparing them to the WT
translation in the NWT and found it interesting that the information that they use in the Reasoning Book regarding APOSTATES is taken from Jude and the experience of Korah with Moses. It seems they use this Scripture to identify elders as the "glorious ones", and anyone speaking against the Society is compared to Korah speaking against Moses. Upon reading the "Rainbow Study Version" of the King James, and also the "Easy Reader Version" Holy Bible, that the Society uses to study with the Deaf,I have come to find out that in the book of Jude glorious ones is translated as "dignities" or angels. This is confirmed in 2Peter 2:10, 11. In the Holy Bibe Easy to Read Version that the Society uses, Jude 8, 11 speaks of "the glorious angels", as says "..they reject God's authority when they say bad things against the glorious angels" "Not even the archangel, Michael did this.....did not dare to condemn the devil with criticizing words, but Michael said, the Lord punish you...." The point was made because of the teaching of Gnostisism was being accepted back then. So after reading this and comparing it in it's accurate context, I think the Society is intentionally trying to make elders above angels by elevating them to the position and using it to falsely identify as "apostate" those who have been hurt by the Watchtower and speak out against It's own false teachings. The reason I bring all of this up is not to get into any deep bible discussion but because the WT uses these scriptures against good people, and is preaching this as fact at the Convention. I guess the WT "glorious ones" are really the "notorious ones".

outnfree

Aroarer,

The Jerusalem Bible translates Jude 8 and 2 Peter 2:11 as "the glorious angels"; the Today's English Version as "the glorious beings above"; Westcott & Hort "glories".

The Greek is "doxas" plural of "doxa" which Strong's Concordance explains as "glory (as very apparent), in a wide "application (lit. or fig., obj. or subj.); -- dignity; glorious, honour, praise, worship."

Personally, after having checked Reasoning from the Scriptures under "Some identifying marks of apostates" where it says:

They may claim to serve God but reject his representatives, his visible organization

and they then cite Jude 8,11: "These men, too, indulging in dreams, are defiling the flesh and disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones. Too bad for them, because they ... have perished in the rebellious talk of Korah!"

It seems to me that the Society is not putting the elders in the place of the glorious ones, but rather the SOCIETY = God's Organization (I fully realize that the elders are the Society's reps on the local level). It would seem that the NWT deliberately leaves out the implication that "the glorious ones" in Jude are "above" or "heavenly," "angelic" so that they can make the following parallel:

"glorious ones" = "Moses" = "God's earthly representatives" = "modern day faithful & discreet slave" [which in reality] = "Governing Body" [only].

Thus, as Moses was the rightful mediator between the nation of Israel and the sons of Korah rejected him and were destroyed, thus the fate of modern day apostates rejecting the Governing Body as Jehovah's rightful mediator between God and men.... uh, oh! WAIT! I think I remember something about there only being, yes,

ONE mediator between God and men, a man Christ Jesus (1 Tim. 2:5)

Gee, er, ummm,

maybe those APOSTATES'R'US!!!

outnfree

ARoarer

Hi outnfree,
I think I remember a Watchtower study article that came out around 2 years or so ago that directly talked about the elders being considered glorious ones. I wish I knew the exact one. The Society seems to think they are above the angels, even the archangel spoken about in Jude.

MacHislopp

Hello Outnfree,

you opinion about the « intentions » of the WTS i.e ;:

« It seems to me that the Society is not putting the elders in the place of the glorious ones, but rather the SOCIETY = God's Organization (I fully realize that the elders are the Society's reps on the local level). It would seem that the NWT deliberately leaves out the implication that "the glorious ones" in Jude are "above" or "heavenly," "angelic" so that they can make the following parallel:
"glorious ones" = "Moses" = "God's earthly representatives" = "modern day faithful & discreet slave" [which in reality] = "Governing Body" [only]. «
is not really a correct one ...or should I write – updated one !

According to the *** w98 6/1 14-19 "Put Up a Hard Fightfor the Faith" and also the other one
*** w97 9/1 13-16 Beware of False Teachers! *** where you can clearly read the application made to - congregation’s elders !!

To Aroarer :

I think I remember a Watchtower study article that came out around 2 years or so ago that directly talked about the elders being considered glorious ones. I wish I knew the exact one. The Society seems to think they are above the angels, even the archangel spoken about in Jude.

You are right ! Here for your ...pleasure the article you were looking for :

*** w98 6/1 14-19 "Put Up a Hard Fight for the Faith"! ***

“Put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.”—JUDE 3.

SOLDIERS at war have always had a hard lot. Imagine donning full battle gear and marching countless miles in all kinds of weather, undergoing grueling training in the use of weaponry, or having to defend yourself against all manner of violent threats to life and limb. True Christians, however, do not take part in the wars of the nations. (Isaiah 2:2-4; John 17:14) Still, we must never forget that we are all at war in a sense. Satan is full of hatred for Jesus Christ and his followers on the earth. (Revelation 12:17) All who decide to serve Jehovah God are, in effect, enlisting as soldiers to wage spiritual warfare.—2 Corinthians 10:4.
2 Fittingly, Jesus’ half brother Jude writes: “Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3) When Jude urges Christians to “put up a hard fight,” he uses a term related to the word for “agony.” Yes, this fight can be difficult, even agonizing! Do you sometimes find it hard to endure in this warfare? Jude’s short but powerful letter can help us. It urges us to resist immorality, to respect divinely constituted authority, and to keep ourselves in God’s love. Let us see how to apply this counsel.
Resist Immorality
3 Jude could see that not all of his fellow Christians were winning the war against Satan. An emergency situation faced the flock. Corrupt men had “slipped in,” writes Jude. These men were subtly promoting immorality. And they cleverly rationalized their deeds, “turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct.” (Jude 4) Perhaps, like some ancient Gnostics, they reasoned that the more one sinned, the more one could receive of God’s grace—so, in effect, it was better to sin more! Or perhaps they figured that a kind God would never punish them. In any case, they were wrong.—1 Corinthians 3:19.
4 Jude refutes their wicked reasonings by citing three examples of Jehovah’s judgments in times past: against the Israelites who were “not showing faith”; against the “angels that . . . forsook their own proper dwelling place” in order to sin with women; and against the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, who “had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use.” (Jude 5-7; Genesis 6:2-4; 19:4-25; Numbers 14:35) In each case, Jehovah brought a resounding judgment against the sinners.
5 Later, Jude refers to an even more far-reaching judgment. He quotes a prophecy of Enoch—a passage that is not found anywhere else in the inspired Scriptures. (Jude 14, 15) Enoch foretold a time when Jehovah would judge all the ungodly and their ungodly deeds. Interestingly, Enoch spoke in the past tense, for God’s judgments were as certain as if they had already taken place. People may have scoffed at Enoch and later at Noah, but all such ridiculers drowned in the global Deluge.
6 Why did Jude write of these divine judgments? Because he knew that some who were associated with the Christian congregations in his own day were committing sins just as filthy and reprehensible as the ones that provoked those past judgments. Thus, Jude writes that the congregations need to be reminded of some basic spiritual truths. (Jude 5) They had evidently forgotten that Jehovah God saw what they were doing. Yes, when his servants deliberately violate his laws, defiling themselves and others, he sees. (Proverbs 15:3) Such acts hurt him deeply. (Genesis 6:6; Psalm 78:40) It is an awesome thought that we mere humans can affect the feelings of the Sovereign Lord of the universe. He watches us daily, and when we do our very best to follow the footsteps of his Son, Jesus Christ, then our conduct makes his heart rejoice. Let us, then, never resent such reminders as Jude offers but take them to heart.—Proverbs 27:11; 1 Peter 2:21.
7 Not only does Jehovah see but he acts. A God of justice, he brings punishment upon evildoers—sooner or later. (1 Timothy 5:24) Those who reason that his judgments are just ancient history and that he is not concerned with the evil they do are merely fooling themselves. How crucial it is for any today who are involved in immorality to seek help immediately from Christian elders! (James 5:14, 15) All of us may be sobered by the threat that immorality poses in our spiritual warfare. Every year there are casualties—individuals who are expelled from our midst, the majority of them for unrepentantly committing immoral acts. We must firmly resolve to resist any temptations that even begin to lead us in such a direction.—Compare Matthew 26:41.

Respect Divinely Constituted Authority

8 Another problem that Jude addresses is the lack of respect for divinely constituted authority. For instance, in verse 8 he charges the same wicked men with “speaking abusively of glorious ones.” Who were these “glorious ones”? They were imperfect men, but they had responsibilities conferred upon them by Jehovah’s holy spirit. For example, the congregations had elders, who were charged with shepherding the flock of God. (1 Peter 5:2) There were traveling overseers too, such as the apostle Paul. And the body of elders in Jerusalem acted as a governing body, making decisions affecting the Christian congregation as a whole. (Acts 15:6) Jude was deeply concerned that certain ones in the congregations were speaking abusively of, or blaspheming, such men.
9 To denounce such disrespectful talk, in verse 11, Jude cites three more examples as reminders: Cain, Balaam, and Korah. Cain ignored Jehovah’s loving counsel and willfully pursued his own course of murderous hatred. (Genesis 4:4-8) Balaam received repeated warnings that unquestionably came from a supernatural source—even his own she-ass spoke to him! But Balaam selfishly continued to plot against God’s people. (Numbers 22:28, 32-34; Deuteronomy 23:5) Korah had his own position of responsibility, but it was not enough. He fomented rebellion against the meekest man on the earth, Moses.—Numbers 12:3; 16:1-3, 32.
10 How vividly these examples teach us to listen to counsel and to respect those whom Jehovah uses in positions of responsibility! (Hebrews 13:17) It is all too easy to find fault with the appointed elders, for they are imperfect, as all of us are imperfect. But if we dwell on their faults and undermine respect for them, might we be “speaking abusively of glorious ones”? In verse 10, Jude mentions those who “are speaking abusively of all the things they really do not know.” Some will, at times, criticize a decision made by a body of elders or a judicial committee. Yet, they are not privy to all the details that the elders had to consider in order to reach a decision. So why speak abusively about things they really do not know? (Proverbs 18:13) Those who persist in such negative talk could cause divisions in the congregation and perhaps even be likened to dangerous “rocks hidden below water” at gatherings of fellow believers. (Jude 12, 16, 19) Never would we want to pose a spiritual danger to others. Rather, let each of us resolve to appreciate responsible men for their hard work and devotion to the flock of God.—1 Timothy 5:17.
11 Jude cites an example of one who respected duly constituted authority. He writes: “When Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: ‘May Jehovah rebuke you.’” (Jude 9) This fascinating account, unique to Jude in the inspired Scriptures, teaches two distinct lessons. On the one hand, it teaches us to leave judgment with Jehovah. Satan evidently wanted to misuse the body of the faithful man Moses in order to promote false worship. How wicked! Yet, Michael humbly refrained from bringing a judgment, for only Jehovah had that authority. How much more, then, should we refrain from judging faithful men who are trying to serve Jehovah.
12 On the other hand, those with a measure of authority in the congregation may also learn a lesson from Michael. After all, though Michael was the “archangel,” chief of all the angels, he did not abuse his position of power, even under provocation. Faithful elders follow that example closely, recognizing that abuse of their authority is disrespectful of Jehovah’s sovereignty. Jude’s letter had much to say about men who had positions of respect in the congregations but had come to abuse their power. For instance, in verses 12 through 14, Jude pens a blistering denunciation of “shepherds that feed themselves without fear.” (Compare Ezekiel 34:7-10.) In other words, their first interest was in benefiting themselves, not Jehovah’s flock. Elders today can learn much from such negative examples. Really, Jude’s words here paint a vivid picture of what we do not want to become. When we give in to selfishness, we cannot be soldiers of Christ; we are too busy fighting for self. Let us all, rather, live by Jesus’ words: “There is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving.”—Acts 20:35.
“Keep Yourselves in God’s Love”
13 Toward the end of his letter, Jude offers this heartwarming counsel: “Keep yourselves in God’s love.” (Jude 21) Nothing will help us to wage the Christian warfare more than this one thing, remaining the objects of Jehovah God’s love. After all, love is Jehovah’s dominant quality. (1 John 4:8) Paul wrote to the Christians in Rome: “I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38, 39) How, though, do we remain in that love? Notice three of the measures we can take, according to Jude.
14 First, Jude tells us to continue building ourselves up on our “most holy faith.” (Jude 20) As we saw in the preceding article, this is a continuous process. We are like buildings that need more and more fortification against the worsening onslaught of the elements. (Compare Matthew 7:24, 25.) So let us never become overconfident. Rather, let us see where we can build ourselves up on the foundation of our faith, becoming stronger, more faithful soldiers of Christ. For example, we might consider the parts of the spiritual suit of armor described at Ephesians 6:11-18.
15 What is the condition of our own spiritual armor? Is our “large shield of faith” as strong as it needs to be? As we look back over recent years, do we see some signs of slacking off, such as dwindling meeting attendance, loss of zeal for the ministry, or fading enthusiasm for personal study? Such signs are serious! We need to act now to build up and strengthen ourselves in the truth.—1 Timothy 4:15; 2 Timothy 4:2; Hebrews 10:24, 25.
16 A second way to remain in God’s love is to continue “praying with holy spirit.” (Jude 20) That means to pray under the influence of Jehovah’s spirit and in harmony with his spirit-inspired Word. Prayer is a vital means of drawing close to Jehovah personally and expressing our devotion to him. Never should we neglect this marvelous privilege! And when we pray, we may ask—in fact, keep asking—for holy spirit. (Luke 11:13) It is the strongest force available to us. With such help, we can always remain in God’s love and endure as soldiers of Christ.
17 Third, Jude urges us to continue showing mercy. (Jude 22) His own example in this regard is remarkable. After all, he was rightly disturbed over the corruption, immorality, and apostasy creeping into the Christian congregation. Nevertheless, he did not succumb to panic, adopting the view that the times were somehow too dangerous to show such a “soft” quality as mercy. No, he urged his brothers to continue to show mercy whenever possible, reasoning kindly with those suffering from doubts and even ‘snatching from the fire’ those straying close to serious sin. (Jude 23; Galatians 6:1) What fine exhortation for elders in these troubled times! They too endeavor to show mercy wherever there is a basis for it, while still being firm when necessary. All of us likewise want to show mercy to one another. For example, instead of nursing petty grudges, we can be generous with our forgiveness.—Colossians 3:13.
18 The war we wage is not an easy one. As Jude says, it is “a hard fight.” (Jude 3) Our enemies are powerful. Not only Satan but his wicked world and our own imperfections all range up against us. Yet, we can be absolutely confident of victory! Why? Because we are on Jehovah’s side. Jude closes his letter with a reminder that Jehovah is rightly attributed “glory, majesty, might and authority for all past eternity and now and into all eternity.” (Jude 25) Is that not an awe-inspiring thought? Can there be any question, then, that this same God “is able to guard you from stumbling”? (Jude 24) Certainly not! Let each of us be determined to continue to resist immorality, to respect divinely constituted authority, and to keep ourselves in God’s love. In that way, we will enjoy a glorious victory together.

[Footnote]

Some researchers assert that Jude is quoting from the apocryphal Book of Enoch. However, R. C. H. Lenski notes: “We ask: ‘What is the source of this patchwork, the Book of Enoch?’ This book is an accretion, and nobody is sure of the dates of its various parts . . . ; nobody can be sure that some of its expressions were not, perhaps, taken from Jude himself.”
Questions for Review
• How does Jude’s letter teach us to resist immorality?
• Why is it so important to respect divinely constituted authority?
• What is so serious about misusing congregational authority?
• How may we work to remain in God’s love?

[Study Questions]
1. In what sense are true Christians today engaged in warfare?
2. How does Jude describe Christian warfare, and how can his letter help us endure in it?
3. What emergency situation faced the Christian congregation in Jude’s day?
4. What three Scriptural examples of Jehovah’s past judgments does Jude cite?
5. From what ancient prophet does Jude quote, and how did that prophecy express the absolute certainty of its fulfillment?
6. (a) Of what did the Christians in Jude’s day need to be reminded? (b) Why should we take Jude’s reminders to heart?
7. (a) Why is it crucial for those involved in serious wrongdoing to seek help immediately? (b) How can all of us avoid immorality?
8. Who were the “glorious ones” mentioned in Jude 8?
9. What examples regarding disrespect for authority does Jude cite?
10. How might some today fall into the trap of “speaking abusively of glorious ones,” and why should such talk be avoided?
11. Why did Michael refrain from bringing a judgment in abusive terms against Satan?
12. What might those with responsible positions in the Christian congregation learn from Michael’s example?
13. Why should we all earnestly desire to remain in God’s love?
14, 15. (a) What does it mean to build ourselves up on our “most holy faith”? (b) How might we examine the condition of our spiritual armor?
16. What does it mean to pray with holy spirit, and what is one thing we should ask Jehovah for regularly?
17. (a) Why is Jude’s example in the matter of mercy so remarkable? (b) How might each of us continue to show mercy?
18. How can we be certain of victory in our spiritual warfare?

*** w97 9/1 13-16 Beware of False Teachers! ***

“There will also be false teachers among you.”—2 PETER 2:1.

WHAT a shocking thing! False teachers in the first-century Christian congregation! (Matthew 7:15; Acts 20:29, 30) Jesus’ half brother Jude was aware of this development. He said that he had intended to write fellow believers “about the salvation we hold in common,” but he explained: “I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith.” Why did Jude change his subject matter? Because, he said, “certain men have slipped in[to the congregations] . . . turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct.”—Jude 3, 4.
2 Apparently, Jude wrote shortly after Peter penned his second letter. Jude no doubt was familiar with this letter. Certainly, he expressed many comparable thoughts in his own powerful letter of exhortation. Therefore, as we examine 2 Peter chapter 2, we will note how similar it is to Jude’s letter.
Consequences of False Teachings

3 After Peter has urged his brothers to pay attention to prophecy, he says: “However, there also came to be false prophets [in ancient Israel], as there will also be false teachers among you.” (2 Peter 1:14–2:1) God’s people in ancient times received true prophecy, but they also had to contend with the corrupt teachings of false prophets. (Jeremiah 6:13, 14; 28:1-3, 15) “In the prophets of Jerusalem,” wrote Jeremiah, “I have seen horrible things, committing adultery and walking in falsehood.”—Jeremiah 23:14.
4 Describing what false teachers would do in the Christian congregation, Peter says: “These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner [Jesus Christ] that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.” (2 Peter 2:1; Jude 4) The final result of such first-century sectarianism is Christendom as we know it today. Peter shows why false teachers richly deserve destruction: “Many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.”—2 Peter 2:2.
5 Think of this! Because of the influence of false teachers, many in the congregations would become involved in loose conduct. The Greek word translated “loose conduct” denotes licentiousness, absence of restraint, indecency, wantonness, shameless conduct. Peter said earlier that Christians had “escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Peter 1:4) But some were going to return to that corruption, and false teachers in the congregations would be largely responsible! Thus the way of the truth would suffer disrepute. How sad! Surely, this is a matter to which all of Jehovah’s Witnesses today should pay close attention. We should never forget that, depending on our conduct, we can bring either praise to Jehovah God and his people or reproach upon them.—Proverbs 27:11; Romans 2:24.

Introducing False Teachings

6 Wisely, we take note of how false teachers introduce their corrupt thinking. Peter first says that they do it quietly, or in an unobtrusive, subtle way. He adds: “With covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words.” Selfish desire motivates false teachers, as is emphasized by the rendering in The Jerusalem Bible: “They will eagerly try to buy you for themselves with insidious speeches.” Similarly, James Moffatt’s translation here says: “In their lust they will exploit you with cunning arguments.” (2 Peter 2:1, 3) The mouthings of false teachers may seem plausible to one who is not spiritually alert, but their words are carefully designed “to buy” people, seducing them into serving the deceivers’ selfish purposes.
7 No doubt, first-century false teachers were influenced by the then current worldly thinking. About the time of Peter’s writing, a philosophy called Gnosticism was becoming popular. Gnostics believed that all matter is evil and only that which pertains to the spirit is good. Thus, some of them said that it does not matter what a man does with his physical body. In time, they argued, man would not have this body. Therefore, they concluded, bodily—including sexual—sins are not important. Apparently, such views began to influence some who professed Christianity.
8 One Bible scholar noted that “there were those in the Church who perverted the doctrine of grace,” or “undeserved kindness.” (Ephesians 1:5-7) According to him, the argument of some went like this: “Do you say that God’s [undeserved kindness] is wide enough to cover every sin? . . . Then let us go on sinning, for God’s [undeserved kindness] can wipe out every sin. In fact the more we sin the more chances God’s [undeserved kindness] will get to operate.” Have you ever heard more twisted reasoning than that?
9 The apostle Paul countered wrong thinking about God’s mercy when he asked: “Shall we continue in sin, that undeserved kindness may abound?” He also inquired: “Shall we commit a sin because we are not under law but under undeserved kindness?” To each question Paul answered emphatically: “Never may that happen!” (Romans 6:1, 2, 15) Clearly, as Jude observes, certain ones were “turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct.” However, Peter notes that for such ones ‘destruction is not slumbering.’—Jude 4; 2 Peter 2:3.
Warning Examples

10 To emphasize that God will take action against willful wrongdoers, Peter provides from the Scriptures three warning examples. First, he writes: “God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned.” These, Jude says, “did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place” in heaven. They came to earth before the Flood and took on fleshly bodies so as to engage in sexual relations with the daughters of men. As punishment for their improper, unnatural conduct, they were thrown into “Tartarus,” or as Jude’s account says, they were “reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.”—2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6; Genesis 6:1-3.
11 Next, Peter refers to the people of Noah’s day. (Genesis 7:17-24) He says that in Noah’s time God “did not hold back from punishing an ancient world . . . when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people.” Finally, Peter writes that God set “a pattern for ungodly persons of things to come” by “reducing the cities Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes.” Jude gives the additional information that those individuals “committed fornication excessively and [went] out after flesh for unnatural use.” (2 Peter 2:5, 6; Jude 7) Men not only had illicit sexual relations with women but lusted for the flesh of other men, possibly even for the flesh of brute beasts.—Genesis 19:4, 5; Leviticus 18:22-25.
12 Yet, at the same time, Peter notes that Jehovah is a rewarder of those who faithfully serve him. For example, he relates how God “kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others” when He brought the Deluge. He also tells of Jehovah’s deliverance of “righteous Lot” in the time of Sodom, concluding: “Jehovah knows how to deliver people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people for the day of judgment to be cut off.”—2 Peter 2:5, 7-9.
Deeds Meriting Punishment
13 Peter singles out ones who are especially reserved for God’s judgment, namely, “those who go on after flesh with the desire to defile it and who look down on lordship.” We can almost feel Peter’s indignation as he says: “Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble at glorious ones but speak abusively.” Jude writes that “these men, . . . indulging in dreams, are defiling the flesh . . . and speaking abusively of glorious ones.” (2 Peter 2:10; Jude 8) Their dreams may involve impure sexual fantasies that encourage their pursuit of immoral sexual gratification. In what sense, though, do they “look down on lordship” and speak “abusively of glorious ones”?
14 They do so in that they despise divinely constituted authority. Christian elders represent the glorious Jehovah God and his Son and, as a result, have certain glory conferred upon them. True, they make mistakes, as did Peter himself, but the Scriptures urge members of the congregation to be submissive to such glorious ones. (Hebrews 13:17) Their shortcomings are no reason to speak abusively of them. Peter says that angels do not “bring against [false teachers] an accusation in abusive terms,” although it would be richly deserved. “But these men,” Peter continues, “like unreasoning animals born naturally to be caught and destroyed, will, in the things of which they are ignorant and speak abusively, even suffer destruction.”—2 Peter 2:10-13.

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Agape to you all, J.C.MacHislopp

outnfree

Thank you very much for the research, Mac.

I stand corrected and now ARoarer has the citations for her research.

Still seems a wrong translation and misapplication, though, now, doesn't it? Most every translation I've been able to put my hands on sees these glorious ones as heavenly hosts, not earthly men.

And I used to take offense when householders objected to the NWT!!!

outnfree

MacHislopp

Hello Outnfree,

I'm pleased to have been of help.
Btw, the application about the "glorious ones " has
changed with the time...decades; before the WTS applied
only to - anointed elders -!

Agape, J.C.MacHislopp

ARoarer

Thanks Mac, I knew I had seen that article. I agree with outnfree, I too felt annoyed when people at the door used to say "that's in YOUR Bible." It makes me angry to think I believed so much that We had the true meaning and everyone else did not. But at the same time, I feel more assured in my own decision to reject the WT teachings that the elders are directed by God, and that the GB represents God on earth. If i remember correctly, when I came into the Org. they used to criticize heavily how the League of Nations basphemed the Creator because they were hailed as an expression of God's Kingdom, on earth. Yet, the WT has made the same claim of representing God's Kingdom. I guess that makes Watchtower the biggest part of "Babylon the Great" world empire of False Religion. Ha! They condemn themselves with their own words. Again, Mac, thanks for the research.

scholar

ARoarer
In regard as to whether the understanding of 'glorious ones' in Jude 8 and 2Peter 2:10 should apply to human (elders)ecclesiastical authorities or to angels, you may find the following information helpful.

Firstly, the noun 'doxas' has accusative case, feminine gender and plural number.
Secondly, older commentaries favoured the interpretation applicable to human authories, however their exegesis was limited in scope and detail.
Thirdly, the expression 'glorious ones' in the opinion of major commentators refers to 'angels'. I quote the following:

"The possibility that doxas refers to human authorities, ecclesiastical or civil, can be ruled out at once, for it can make no good sense of vs.11. We must take doxas as in Jude 8, to refer to angelic powers". Word Biblical Commentary, JUDE, 2 PETER, Richard J Bauckham, 1983, Vol. 50, pp. 260 - 262; 57 - 58.

Hoping this information is helpful
scholar

Maximus

ARoarer

Maximus, a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks

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