by somebodylovesme 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
.. Let me say straight off that I am not that familiar with the Bible (my husband is an inactive JW.. I never was in the religion). But I thought I read once a Bible story in which Jesus went to visit someone who was seen as an immoral person, and said that they needed him the most? Or something like that? are there any other verses/stories that carry this theme and would weaken the JW's policy of disfellowshipping?
Thanks!!
SLM
Please lookup Romans 12:16 in context, it talks about people!
New World Translation
Be minded the same way toward others as to yourselves; do not be minding lofty things, but be led along with the lowly things. Do not become discreet in YOUR own eyes .
Authorized Version
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
How about this John 8
3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
7 But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11 "No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
2 Corinthians 2:6-8
Note the apostles?s expression that the "rebuke by the majority is sufficient" and that the man should be forgiven by "them," the Congregation. .
1. If only a "majority" shunned, then there must have been a minority that chose not to shun. Paul does not say to disfellowship the "minority" who choose not to shun the sinner.
2. Notice that the Congregation, "Them" should forgive the sinner, not re-instated by a secret committee.
Somebodylovesme... I believe the scripture you are referring to is Matthew 9:10-13. From the NWT:
Later, while he was reclining at the table in the house, look! many tax collectors and sinners came and began reclining with Jesus and his disciples. But on seeing this the Pharisees began to say to his disciples: "Why is it that YOUR teacher eats with tax collectors and sinners?" Hearing [them], he said: "Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do. Go, then, and learn what this means, ?I want mercy, and not sacrifice.? For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners."
Another one would be the parable of the prodigal son, In Luke 15:11-32. Particularly vs 20,22:
So he rose and went to his father. While he was yet a long way off, his father caught sight of him and was moved with pity, and he ran and fell upon his neck and tenderly kissed him. ... But the father said to his slaves, ?Quick! bring out a robe, the best one, and clothe him with it, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet.'
In this story, the fasther runs out and hugs his son as soon as he sees him coming home. He doesn't make him wait or beg, or gradually work his way back into favor. This is quite contrary to the way that the Witnesses treat disfellowshipped ones who want to be reinstated.
Finally, there is 2 Thessalonians 3:14,15:
But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.The expression "stop associating with him" is exactly the same Greek word as 'quit mixing with' in 1 Cor 5, which is the verse the WT uses to justify disfellowshipping. This verse shows that even a person who is disfellowshipped should not be completely shunned.
Be warned -- I am angry --this is my big bad point -- READ THE WHOLE OF THE PARABLE OF THE PRODIGAL SON -- The witness policy on reinstatement after DF is not only unscriptural -- it is anti-scriptural
The WTS is well familiar with such scriptures... they use them to egg the JWs on to preach to everyone, however, you only get to be forgiven ONCE.
Once you are forgiving by the WTS, you cannot screw up again, or you get the ax!
So much for forgiving your brother 77 times.
Matt. 18:15-17 is often used to try to justify disfellowshipping, but if one looks carefully, it suggests nothing of the kind. How did Jesus treat tax collectors? Did he shun them? No, he associated with them. See Matt. 9:10-13, Matt. 11:19
What about the Gentiles? It is true that he instructed the 12 not to go to the Gentiles or pagans, but they also were not to go to Samaritan towns either. Their mission was to Israel only. Matt. 10:5-6 But does that mean that Jesus and the early congregation shunned pagans and Samaritans? While I can't say if he visited pagan territory, he certainly went to Samaria and specifically to a town called Sychar, where he spoke to the woman at the well and through her many of the Samaritans of that town came to believe in Jesus. See John 4. So rather than isolating, punishing, ostracizing and shunning tax collectors we are to eat and associate with them; basically to love them. And if he likewise loved Samaritans, can we believe he did not love Gentiles? How could anyone ever conclude that Jesus wanted us to shun offenders, since he never shunned tax collectors, sinners, nor Samaritans? And if Jesus shunned Gentiles, then all JWs and non Jews are in serious trouble!
When you shun a person, you are forbidden to be kind to them. You can't even say "Hello!" or check to see if they are doing ok.
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Galations 5:22,23 NWT: " On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law."
and
Luke 6:27-37 NWT: But I say to you who are listening, continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you to bless those cursing you, to pray for those insulting you. To him that strikes you on one cheek, offer the other also: and from him that takes away your outer garment, do not withhold even the under-garment(). Give to everyone asking you, and from the one taking your things away do not ask them back. Also, Just as you want men to do to you, do the same way to them. And if you love those loving you of what credit is it to you? for even sinners love those loving them. And if you do good to those doing good to you, really of what credit is it to you? Even sinners do the same....To the contrary continue to love your enemies and to do good and to lend withour interest, not hoping for anything back, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because He is kind toward the unthankful and wicked. Continue being merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Moreover, stop judging , and you will by no means be judged. and stop condemning and you will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and you will be released."
Thank you all so much!! This is very helpful. :)
