Christian Freedom - Ray Franz

by Noumenon 28 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Noumenon

  In the foreword of Ray Franz's book 'In Search of Christian Freedom', he says:

  "There is yet another, very significant, side to the matter. Many persons seek only a negative freedom. They seek to be free from something, to be free from feeling compelled to profess belief in certain teachings, to perform certain activities or conform to certain policies, all imposed by ecclesiastical authority. Of itself that kind of freedom may be a proper goal, desirable, bringing release from oppressive restraints and from domination of mind and heart by men in a way which is clearly unchristian. But even so, by itself this release does not bring Christian freedom. For Christian freedom primarily implies a positive freedom - not merely a freedom from something but a freedom to something. It is freedom not simply of not doing but of doing, as well as of being - as to what we are in heart and mind as an individual persons. Rather than by the mere step of leaving a religious sytem viewed as false, it is by what we do with our lives after separating from that system that we demonstrate whether true freedom has actually been gained."

  How many on this site can say that they have moved on from this negative freedom and have since gained the real Christian freedom Ray describes and which is the whole point of his books?

  It seems to me that most on this site imagine they are enjoying the negative freedom but that sadly they have not comprehended how to move beyond this. Instead many seem mired in a psychological need to continually slag the organisation and JW's at large. They seem to have a compulsion to forever obtain a renewed sense of this 'negative freedom' from other ex-jw's via this site, as if this freedom from the shackles of JW's is the be all and end all of all spirituality.

  Are not many of you still psychologically enslaved to the organisation by your reliance, year after year after year, on anti-JW website's like this? The organisation is no longer the crutch it once was to you, but websites such as this are now your emotional 'religious' addiction.

  Many seem so consumed by bitterness and ill-feeling toward the organisation that they seem mired in a permanent state of negativity, some even losing all faith in God and Christ and lapsing into agnoticism, atheism, or giving free reign to the desires of the flesh in all it's various forms.

  Isn't it time to learn to move on to something more positive....to real freedom...
• 

  avishai

  It seems to me that most on this site are enjoying the negative freedom but have sadly not moved beyond this, instead being mired in a psychological need to continually slag the organisation and JW's at large.

  Are many of you still not slaves to the organisation and what damage it may have done to you psychologically by your continued reliance on anti-JW website's and others like it. The organisation is no longer the crutch it once was to you, but websites such as this are now your addiction.

  Many seem so consumed by bitterness and ill-feeling toward the organisation that they feel oppressed them that they are mired in a permanent state of negativity, some even losing all faith in God and Christ and lapsing into agnoticism, atheism, or giving free reign to the desires of the flesh in all it's various forms.

  Isn't it time to move on to real freedom...

  I find your statements to be both patronizing & insulting. My current view of God has nothing to do with the J-dubs, and as for moving on positively, & helping people, I've spent the last 14 years of my life helping mentally and emotionally handicapped adults & children. What have you done? Now, I'm helping with the kids who were/are still hurting as a result of abuse at the hands of an organization that still continuse to cover up & lie & deny any justice to those abused.

  Your damn right i'm still involved, & I'm bitter, & I will continue to be so until the abuse stops. Dogmatically i give shit-one what they, or you believe, for that matter. Who the hell are you to judge me for my beliefs, lifestyle, or where I choose to post on the internet? It seems to me that it is YOU who have failed to escape the judgmentalism of the JW's, something the bible says is God's & God's alone.
• 

  yxl1

  Many seem so consumed by bitterness and ill-feeling toward the organisation that they seem mired in a permanent state of negativity, some even losing all faith in God and Christ and lapsing into agnoticism, atheism, or giving free reign to the desires of the flesh in all it's various forms.

  Isn't it time to learn to move on to something more positive....to real freedom...

  Oh my God. Is this a joke? Methinks maybe you stayed a little too long as a Hovah, and are having problems getting rid of some of their irritating, patronizing ways...Mmmm?

  BTW, Thanks for the laugh this morning Avishai, that was a real treat!

  yxl1
• 

  avishai

  Your welcome, yxl1
• 

  fjtoth

  Noumenon,

  You make some good points, but Avishai is right. You come across as patronizing and insulting. You turn readers off with phrases like the following:

  How many on this site can say that they have ...? ... It seems to me that most on this site imagine they are ... they have not comprehended ... many seem mired ... They seem to have a compulsion ... Are not many of you still psychologically enslaved ... your emotional 'religious' addiction. ... Many seem ... Isn't it time to learn to move on ...?

  Your judgment of "they" not very subtly turns into an insensitive condemnation of "many of you." Would you so quickly chide Jesus for persisting in his condemnation of the Pharisees? If not, why criticize those who clearly see and expose the WTS as a modern organizational Pharisee?
• 

  captain pugwash

  surely thats the point he's making? why do you go on bothering to critisice and moan about something that you dont want or care for?

  I'll be honest I'm only on here cos I'm bored with my usual football site . but this site just seems ridiculous to the extreme! I just dont get it?
• 

  RAYZORBLADE

  Given the high volume of this site, the sheer volume of people who visit here is astounding.

  We probably have less posters than we do lurkers.

  People come here, many from varrying degrees of their processes with regards to their Jehovah's Witness experience.

  We can be flippant, urging everyone to 'get on with it', 'get past it'.

  Yup, that's great. Easy, over and done with.

  Then we have people who are questioning the organization, or, are in the process of exiting it, or are leaving it without question. What do we do with them?

  'OK, yup, good for you, move on, get over it, bye'.

  Hmmm.....if I look back 20 years ago, that's was probably the best I could have hoped for, but didn't get.

  There is no experience like that of having been a Jehovah's Witness. No one else, but a former JW can relate to your experience. Others can be sympathetic, and definitely try to empathize, but they can not fully comprehend the entire scope of JW life, unless they've been one.

  20 years later, I am feeling great, free and 'moved on', but I can tell anyone this, I still feel a strong desire to be there for folks who need a 'listening ear', a 'shoulder to cry on', or someone they can talk to who knows what they've been through.

  My past, both good/bad, remains with me. The good thing is, I have not chosen to repeat my past by returning to the WTS and it's cultish activities. But what I have returned to is a place I know I wish I had had, so many years ago.

  For what it is worth, if/when I can be there for 1 person (and I have been there for many), I will remain here or in my present capacity as a caring and compassionate human being who has certainly 'been there - done that', but without any flippancy towards those newly exited, or those who are coming to terms with their cult connection as a Jehovah's Witness.

  Those who have believing members in the religion (JWs) should get over it: those who were former members without believing family members, should get over it too.

  Hmm.....

  Most of the time the folks whom are insinuating that we're bitter and enslaved, are folks who have a some denial issues.

  Captain Pugwash<great Nova Scotia community name minus the Captain part; this site is not difficult to figure out, and if one interprets it as you do as: ridiculous to the extreme, probably doesn't give a shit one way or another. Perhaps (?) another: 'hey get over it' observation?

  I am not mean spirited as I write this, and no emoticons are going to place my voice or inflections of speech here in this post.

  But I have to admit, in the past where I thought I could simply 'get over it', and be flippant to others to also 'get over it', well, I did more harm than good to myself and others.

  Those who ignore the past are destined to repeat it. (not an exact quote)

  Perhaps it's not within your capacity (any person) to offer practical well-thought out advice with regards to former Jehovah's Witnesses, or those in transition or those newly recently disfellowshipped. Best to let these wayward souls wander aimlessly without a caring soul in the world, especially one that gives a damn as to their personal welfare.

  I for one, owe plenty to many.

  My life is good, but now I don't deny my former involvement with the Jehovah's Witnesses, and if and when I can be helpful to someone in need, I avail myself.

  The other option, suggest they get over it, and send them right on back to their misery.

  I'm glad Raymond Franz wrote the book he did. It is indeed insightful, and really tells it like it is.

  People recovering from cults, have a great deal of pain and anger. It's a process that is a personal one, with each person recovering at their own rate.

  To see only the sadness/anger/misery of those newly exited or those still dealing with the agony of a believing mate/family members, misses the bigger picture.

  There's a lot of freedom expressed here compared to a Kingdom Hall. There is also a great deal of humour and laughter shared here too, and I've met some pretty incredibly positive and loving individuals whom are former Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Anyways, I think anyone who posts to this thread, understand what I have written. Even I have been where you are, and have said the same things: 'get over it'. No one ever gets over it, you just process it, deal with it, and acknowledge it as it having been part of your life. If one can impart even one iota of comfort or support to any one person questioning the WTS/JWs or to someone df/da'd, etc., then we're putting our past to good present and future.

  Hope this is not too convoluted. But I had to write this, as is.

  Best wishes to all who posted here.

  Moving on, but not forgetting, and not leaving those in need, desolate.

  Rayzorblade
• 

  Frantic

  great post razorblade!
  
  We can be flippant, urging everyone to 'get on with it', 'get past it'. Yup, that's great. Easy, over and done with. Then we have people who are questioning the organization, or, are in the process of exiting it, or are leaving it without question. What do we do with them?
  .
  exactly......I find the site very informative and helpful, it has opened my eyes to a lot of what goes on behind the scenes.
• 

  captain pugwash

  from what you say it sounds like things are a bit different in america than england - here things dont seem to be such a big deal.I've always thought americans take religion very seriously - sort of puritanical. I kind of think - not wanting to sound nasty - that a lot of people who got themselves into these things had reasons - and part of it seems support or belonging rather than actually believing something ( my mam still goes to church cos her friends go)- I dont think thats changed - its just where that support or sense of belonging comes from.

  Why dont you just stand on your own two feet and stop relying on other people?especially when you've already been stung - I dont see the difference in dealing with your church or dealing with strangers on the internet?if you've got issues with the JWs surely you'd want to get away from them and just not have anything to do with it anymore?including the whole subject.go make friends at school or work or whatever and dont have any dealings with people who make religion such a bid issue.

  I was brought up going to church but now I dont go cos I make my own decisions- no big deal!

  and dont send money to anyone- one of these people on here was asking for money so he could go to court- dont send any money to anyone. In england we have a view of these american evangelisers in white suits saying send me fifty dollars cos god says I need a rolls royce and souls will be saved!mugs game! there are so many people readty to take advantage of you and rip you off!
• 

  jayhawk1

  from what you say it sounds like things are a bit different in america than englandfrom what you say it sounds like things are a bit different in america than england

  This site is brought to you by Simon, an Englishman. Oh, and we have an Englishman on the site who goes by Englisman. Come to think of it about half of the regular posters are English. So before you get on your soap box and tell us Americans how superior you are, get your facts strait.