Christian Freedom - Ray Franz

by Noumenon 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  codeblue

  "Not leaving those in need desolate"....Razorblade

  Well stated Razorblade. That is the whole point of this site. I have appreciated this site as a "newbie"...many of the ones that are still here have posted and cited some good research information and served as "therapy" for what I have just started experiencing when one leaves a mind control group. That is very necessary for moving on to a "positive life" ....to know one is NOT alone in the way one feels and learning how others have coped with this experience.

  I want to personally thank all the posters who have helped me along a healthy way of life!!!

  Codeblue
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  Descender

  Captain Pugwash, imagine that you were born into a Jehovah's Witness family like many on this board were. You grow up in the religion, with Jehovah's Witness parents, grandparents, and friends. You are an outcast at school because you aren't allowed to participate in any sports or extra-ciricular activities and you don't celebrate holidays like the rest of the kids. You believe that all the people out there that aren't Witnesses are bad people that will die a horrible death at armagedon and it's just around the corner and you look forward to it more than anything else in the world because that's what you've been taught to believe since you were born.

  One day, (lets say you're 21 years old) someone drops a bomb on you with a question about some questionable practices or change of beliefs that the Watchtower society has been asociated with. Of course these things can't be true can they, but they weigh on your mind, so you go and ask the elders about these doubts that have been culminating in your mind. The elders decide to disfellowship you because you have a lack of faith because you asked such questions that they can't answer. Now, the only people that you've ever known in your whole life will have nothing to do with you, your grandparents won't talk to you, your friends that you've had since you were 5 won't look at you, your parents disown you and won't allow you in their house. Why??? just because you asked the wrong question.

  So, if that was your situation, would you just say, "oh well, I made a mistake" or would you be a bit pissed off that you just spent 21 years of your life learning and upholding something that's not true and because you learned some hidden secret, all the people that you ever knew will have nothing to do with you now. Mind you, these are the same people that were your best and only friends the day before you were disfellowshipped, now they look at you with loathing if they happen to see you walking on the street and walk the other way.

  Would it be so easy just to let it all go? For being a counselor, you don't have a very good knack for walking in other people's shoes.
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  Odrade

  Well said Descender!

  It should also be noted, Noumenom, that freedom TO do/think/act also gives me the freedom to look to other sources than Christianity. This has made me very happy. Sure I'm bitter. I have to hide who I am just so my family can continue to associate with me? People "get over" things that are in their past. For most of us on this list, the WTS still puts her tentacles into our lives by means of our family and friends (former) still caught by her stranglehold. The abuse is ongoing.

  And pugwash, well, I can't resist, but you thought you were going to accomplish WHAT??? by coming on here and calling names and poking fun at people's grief and hurt? Very evolved of you, I'm sure.

  Odrade
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  Valis

  Are not many of you still psychologically enslaved to the organisation by your reliance, year after year after year, on anti-JW website's like this?

  um I rely on Simon to make sure the site refreshes, and Angharad to keep Simon from wanking off over Britney Spears pics when he should be adding a right click function to the text box, but other than that no. Now one might say I am psychologicaly enslaved by the Internet, because it has brought me friends, part of my work, tons of information, fun, etc...So what is this freedom you speak of? Some kind of enlightened high speed Internet connection where all is a bed of roses? I'm all for it! *LOL* You might also need to consider that some of us come here as reactionaries, not refugees, or someone in need of another tit to suck on as it were, eheh well, that's another story, and would only further prove my point, but ahem.....*LOL* Now then, I came here because I needed help with my parents and their disrespect of my parental rights...I found lots of support and then it just so happened I started meeting some of the people here and it quickly became something different. People who would probably never be my friends in RT are now. You should try and make it to one of our gatherings and I'm betting even if you never talked about JWs here again you would stick around for the people you meet.

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
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  rocketman
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  Amazing

  Noumenon,

  The above reactions to your post seem to vary, but everyone seems to have made some very good comments. You are correct in that some former Jehovah's Witnesses get mired in negativity. I think the vast majority show good judgment, grow, and move forward with good productive lives.

  I do contend that remaining on boards like this one is not evidence of being mired in negativity, but evidence of fulfilling personal needs ... some find companionship, some find information, some give great information, some build new relationships that lead to activities off board ... and some find satisfaction in helping other former Jehovah's Witnesses to have additional help beyond Ray Franz's books. Doing any of these things seems reasonable to me.

  A final note is on atheism or agnosticism. These views are not the result of being negative, mired in self pity or floundering in a cesspool of ex-JW nonsense. Rather, these are legitimate views of people who, using their good conscience and intellectual honesty, determine they cannot accept belief in any god given the evidence or lack of evidence involved. I have some concerns myself about God, but under no circumstances do I feel I have a right to judge either the godly or those who do not believe in any god.

  Anyway, your post is stimulating for sure ... and I suspect that you will get many more interesting reactions.

  Jim Whitney
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  gumby

  It seems to me that most on this site imagine they are enjoying the negative freedom but that sadly they have not comprehended how to move beyond this. Instead many seem mired in a psychological need to continually slag the organisation and JW's at large. They seem to have a compulsion to forever obtain a renewed sense of this 'negative freedom' from other ex-jw's via this site, as if this freedom from the shackles of JW's is the be all and end all of all spirituality

  You seem to think enough of Ray to quote him and base your ideas and this thread off of his ideas......yet you do not seem to think he "slags" the Organisation. What is slagging to you? Is it exposing this religion that has destroyed countless lives? That's what ray does....he exposes them for what they are.......yet you don't seem to think that's proper for us to do here. You have no idea what people here do in their private lives as far as moving on.

  Gumby
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  Blueblades

  There is no connection with Ray Franz's books and what you have posted here.One has nothing to do with the other.Ray's book on Christian Freedom is based on the premise that the Bible is the Word of God.From his experiences in life he has come to that conclusion.Not everyone has.

  Your post has nothing to do with his books.When children die and are abused,neither the children nor the parents will ever get over it.They have been scarred forever by it and from someone that they have put their trust in.

  When a person has been betrayed by someone that they spent a lifetime serving and giving of themselves in great sacrifice,loss of life included,they can't get over it.

  When mental,emotional,and physical,harm has been brought down heavily by the ones you haved loved and supported,you don't get over it.

  There is much more I could add,but you see the point.

  This board has been a healing place for many and insightful to those who for lack of this information board would still be in the dark about the truth about the wt.society.

  For those who have a Bible -based faith I envy them and wished that it could be so with me.For those who are searching for meaning in life,I am walking along with them.

  There is much to be gained from this board,much love is shown here and I hope that many more can find some solace from this place.May Simon and Angharad continue to keep it up and running.

  I hope too that someday you will look back on this post that you made and gain some measure of understanding for what so many have suffered at the hands of those they loved,served,and gave their life to.

  Blueblades
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  Amazing

  Hi Blueblades,

  Excellent points about the harm done to many former JWs ... thanks for making sure these points got introduced ... Jim W.