by metatron 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
the book of Rev. probably does not ever refer to our time, but to the ancient time back then as John was writing this.
It HAS to refer to our current times. I mean it's prophesies are going to "climax" really really soon.
Otherwise the Watchtower Society (and other faux-interpreters of Revelation) couldn't make money from books that warn of doom to all non-believers in their particular interpretation.
Isn't it amazing people need a scholar to tell them that a 1900 y.o. text might refer to its time, not ours?
This Discovery Channel show was fascinating (parts of it, anyway), and I had to admit the numerology game referred to as the solution to the identity of 666 was plausible. In fact, most of the theories advanced by the show made WAY more sense than the teaching that 7 trumpet blasts equal 7 obscure resolutions read at 7 conventions attended by a tiny fraction of the earth's population in the 1920's. These conventions were largely ignored by mankind as a whole and to this day almost no JW's can tell you off the top of their heads what those resolutions were about.
Some of the ancient texts do indeed read 616 and not 666. City Fan's supposition is correct in my opinion...this is refering to Ceasar Nero...but more broadly to all Roman Emperors...the Emperor at the time of the suppossed writing of REV was Domitian (sp)...he was said by some to be the re-incarnation of Nero...
Nero committed Suicide by stabbint himself in the neck..."And the beast was wound"
what is often overlooked or ignored or unknown is that the number is NOT 666 but [600] [60] [6] or [600] [10] [6]
it only looks like 666 in english/modern numbers, the greek had different letters for each and so the ominous one shy of 7 for each digit was lost on the ancients....and the "number" looks a lot like sex in greek letters :)
In the oldest manuscripts, the number is written in full spelling: hexakosioi hexèkonta hex (the repetition of hex = 6 being similar to our digit writing 666).
It is intersting that my 1970 New American Bible (Catholic) has the following comments regarding Revelation.
" The Book of Revelation cannot be adequately comprehended except against the historical background which occasioned its writing. Like the Book of Daniel and other religious apocalypses, it was composed as resistance literature to meet a crisis. The book itself suggests that the crisis was ruthless persecution of the early Church by the Roman authorities; the harlot Babylon symbolizes pagan Rome, the city on seven hills. The book is, then, an exhortation and admonition to the Christian to stand firm in the faith and to avoid compromise with paganism, despite the threat of adversity and martyrdom?.
The Book of Revelation had its origin in a time of crisis, but it remains valid for Christians of all time. In the face of evils from within and without, the Christian can confidently trust in God?s promise to be with the church forever."
Isn't it amazing people need a scholar to tell them that a 1900 y.o. text might refer to its time, not ours?
ROFL... Narkissos, you are my hero.
Globetrotter... now that's sensible. If only the WTS were that level-headed...
In the oldest manuscripts, the number is written in full spelling: hexakosioi hexèkonta hex (the repetition of hex = 6 being similar to our digit writing 666).
which manuscript might that be? the ones on line in greek do not spell it out.
http://www.bibletexts.com/qa/qa035.htm
I watched that show too and was surprised at the 666 and 616 connotations.
The significance of the number 666 was obviously understood by the original Christian communities from which and to which the Revelation was sent. Bratcher and Hatton (A Handbook on the Revelation to John, New York: United Bible Societies, 1993, pages 204-205) provide a good summary of current conclusions:
There are many interpretations of the name represented by the number 666. The most widely accepted one is that it stands for the Roman Emperor Nero. Written in Hebrew letters, the numerical value of the letters of the (Latin) name "Neron Caesar" adds up to 666. Some commentators are of the opinion that no one specific person was in the writer's mind, but that by 666 the writer meant total imperfection. Number six is one short of the perfect seven, and three indicates completeness, so the imperfect number six given three times symbolizes "complete imperfection." But the way in which the writer states the matter makes it quite probable that he had some historical person in mind... As the RSV (Revised Standard Version) footnote shows, one Greek manuscript and a few ancient versions have 616, but 666 is the better attested text.
It might be worth noting that though Revelation was written in Greek, the author was very familiar with the the commerce, economy, and geography of Jerusalem and the surrounding region. Werner Georg Kummel (Introduction to the New Testament, Revised Edition, translated by Howard Clark Kee, Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1975, page 465) quotes J. Schmid, who wrote:
The author [of Revelation] thought in Hebrew but wrote in Greek.
The significance of the number 616 was known as early as Irenaeus in the Second Century.
One explanation of 616 is from a Hebrew numbering perpective. As stated by G.B. Caird, "A Hebraized version of the Latin form Nero Caesar would lack the second nun" -- which had a value of 50 in Hebrew.
Another explanation of 616 is from a Greek numbering perpective, and counts the Greek letters that spell out the Greek words, which are translated in English as "Caesar God." As represented by J. Massyngberde Ford (ibid.):
For further details, you can refer to:
