Nice post Six. I took the time to read the posts to that discussion board, and a few comments stuck with me. I will quote them here for others to read. From Non-American points of view.
From my non-American point of view:
a) the invasion of Iraq was unjust - it was partly finishing Bush family business, partly the US twiching like a wounded animal after 9/11 (finally acknowledging its vulnerability, but in all the wrong ways and for all the wrong reasons). And of course: partly to get the oil. Don't for a minute try to convince me that GWB cares one iota about the lives of civilian Iraqis (any moreso than homeless American citizens or people starving in a dozen other underdeveloped countries who get no attention?). US power over Arab oil, that's what the President wants, plus some points in heaven from his God - as well as the support of the conservative religious right wing here on Earth.b) OK, Saddam is gone, but the world is now by far a more dangerous place than before, with Bush and his right wing war mongers provoking terrorist activities. The war they could handle, the peace they can not. Iraq is now a hornet's nest, with a lot of US military power poking around in it. They should leave immediately and let the UN take over. The UN might not provoke such hostility, and be more interested in the making world (as a whole!) a functioning mechanism.
c) Why this single-minded preoccupation with "American lives", "US deaths"? As if Americans counted higher than everybody else. The graphs above won't show an accurate picture of your wars until they include the deaths of Vietnamese civilians slaugthered by the American military machine. (But of course that would make the graphs so large they couldn't fit on this page anymore.) Wars always include several fighting parties, and those we all should care first and foremost about are the civilians killed. And the only real enemy are the Hawks who want war - regardless if they are on "our" side or not.Contrary to another writer above, I do believe the US was attacked for a reason on 9/11, and that the terrorists do care about who (or rather what) they attac. The planes didn't arrive out of a vacuum, and had US foreign policy historically been based more on understanding, mutual respect and humility (instead of power thirst, narrowmindedness and fear of Communism-or-whatever), the towers would probably still be standing in New York City.
America is a great country, which have given me better cultural experiences through music and movies than any other countries, but the US surely deserve better politicians - people who help the UN run the world (for the benefit of everybody), instead of making enemies everywhere as they try to do it themselves.A saying in my country: "Whoever is very strong, must also be very kind".P.S. I'm quite convinced the organized terrorism from Usama &co will end once GWB has terminated his presidency. Anybody wanna bet?
and from the mind of an Iraqi:
I do not necessarily entirely agree or disagree with what these people are saying, but I did find their comments to be relevant to this discussion. Any comments?There is one thing all of you are overlooking.
We did not take kindly to Saddam oppressing us and we will not take kindly to George Bush oppressing.
It is one thing to be oppressed by your own people, but entirely different to be oppressed by foreign invaders.
Invaders who force their culture and morals (or lack thereof) on our populace.
The way the American soldiers treat our children and women is very disrespectful in our culture.
Soldiers pointing guns at children and male soldiers physically searching our women is totally demaning to us in our culture.We have an honour of family in our culture and the American soldiers are violating that honour.
We will defend it even if it means death.This is something you can not understand because it does not exist in American culture.
We do not hate Americans, we just hate the foreign policy, especially when it results in our oppression.
Keep your eyes and ears open. We will be free soon.
The road to Iraq is paved with American blood.
Posted by: Omar Al-Farouq at November 30, 2003 08:40 AM