Ozzie's point for contemplation this weekend

by ozziepost 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  bebu

  Speculation...

  Angels were each aware of the perfect reality of God, and followed Satan in the sin of pride--that is, wholly understanding who God is, yet rejecting Him as God. Satan/demons understood it all, but rejected it. What more could be shown to them to convert them?

  Humans, on the other hand, have been tempted to sin thru deceit. Evil often masquerades as good. So Christ is the prism that separates our colors.

  Isa 28:16 "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

  17 I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line;

  hail will sweep away your refuge, the lie, and water will overflow your hiding place.

  bebu
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  peacefulpete

  That 1940 article was interesting. Of course they changed their mind on it later. The insight 11 pg 674 says that the preaching was merely condemnation. Because of their denial of immortal soul they must assume the spirits disobediant in Noah's day are Demons and the prison is not hades but some "condition" of disfavor. According to the WT Jesus when resurrected sometime after ascending, metaphorically condemned the demons thru his faithfulness.
  
  As has been discussed here recently in a couple threads, the verses are really saying that Jesus when dead and a disembodied spirit went to hades to try to appeal to those there in torment. Their final judgement was yet future and so opportunity for repentance existed. The context of 1 Peter is about death and subsequent spirit life. The context also is about the death of those killed in the Flood. Clearly the the passage is about the spirits of the people who were disobedient and died in the flood awaiting final judgement.
  
  In an earlier comment on the other thread i confused this verse with 2 Peter and Tartarus. Lingering JWism.
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  Frannie Banannie

  How about this? The men who authored the bible were only concerned with their OWN destinies and since the destinies of the angels didn't directly affect their existence or future, they didn't feel the need to address this issue.

  Frannie B
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  bebu

  Clearly the the passage is about the spirits of the people who were disobedient and died in the flood awaiting final judgement.

  I agree with this; I'd not heard the JW understanding of this verse until this thread; I don't think the insertion of demons here fits the context.

  Some folks speculate that this passage may mean Christ opened there a door for all souls who have died who were/will be waiting for judgement.

  bebu
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  ozziepost

  Since 1 Peter 3:18 has been brought into the equation, this may take this thread 'sideways' but some comments:

  Basically the spirits could refer to spirits in prison i.e. angels, or it can refer to the human spirits of humans who have died.

  We find 3 views:

  1. Jesus went to Hell to witness to spirits from the days of the flood. (Origen)

  2. Jesus preached by the mouth of Noah and they are now in prison. (Augustine)

  3. The spirits in prison are fallen angels.

  View #3 is the most common and it's also the JW view.

  The WTS would, of course, have a problem with Origen's view since they teach that after death there is "no knowledge" etc. i.e. no spirit-life. Similarly with Augustine's view.

  As peacefulpete has pointed out, the WTS view doesn't fit in the context. As has been said by one scholar, "a text out of context is a pretext". But that never stopped the writers of the WTS!

  Cheers, Ozzie