by Pistoff 21 Replies latest watchtower bible
So; in 1923 it was honest ones in Christendom who would have an earthly hope; by 1932 the judge maintains it was NOT earthly but spiritual
Not quite. The class referenced in in 1932 was the "great multitude", or great crowd. From Russell's day until 1935, those were believed to be active Bible Students/Witnesses who didn't fully live up to their consecration (dedication). They were a separate group from the "other sheep."
I think they just want to insinuate they knew; they are good at acheiving their goal more by what they do NOT say, for example in this case:
from 23 to 35 the makeup of this earthly group changed from being the leftovers, namely "christendom" christians who were not toiling for the lord, to being the new Jehonadab class, the darlings of the moment. This was a stroke of genius for the judge; it got him off the hook by easing pressure on the increasing number of people in the org. Do the math; 144,000 only who get the big prize; and blondie says they got nervous at 59,000. I hope so; how about all the "faithful" they claim existed during the previous 1900 years, let alone during the time of the apostles along?? Just 100 "genuine" christians per year would put the 144,000 number out of the picture!
Now, though, the pressure is off. Now there could be as many "sheep" as would come in, and membership in the "anointed" class was controlled by admonishing, cajoling articles about who really was of the anointed. This has not changed at all of course; last year's memorial issue of WT was outright rude and threatening about those who partook and didn't belong.
(sheesh; as if some would partake if they didn't think they belonged. AND as if it makes any difference; the idea that the anointed lead the org is a myth anyway; what plan is in place to replace dying ones at bethel with anointed ones from around the world?? SO much emphasis is put on the remnant, but while they are not being replaced with anointed at headquarters, there are thousands of anointed around the world. So much on needing their direction for holy spirit. Apparently, being in New York around the insiders your whole life is more important than being of the anointed.)
Pissed, your last is right on the mark!
what plan is in place to replace dying ones at bethel with anointed ones from around the world??
The "Nethinim" class; non-anointed 'assistants' who will soon replace the GB. How odd that at one time the WTS asserted that some of the 'remnant' would survive Arm and lead the survivors into the 'New World.'
Euph, yep! The 'other sheep' were coalesced into the 'great crowd.' And the GC supposedly don't show up until after Arm, so how could they be here now? Another conundrum, which the WTS adroitly dispensed with yet another re-definition as 'the potential members of the great crowd.'
I was a book study conductor when we were going through the Babylon book, and this issue about the GC was a point I made then. Lots of confused expressions from the publishers, eh?
The obfuscation continues on, and on, and on.
Craig
I was a book study conductor when we were going through the Babylon book, and this issue about the GC was a point I made then. Lots of confused expressions from the publishers, eh?
LOL I seem to remember that there was once a QFR just to explain the difference between the other sheep and the great crowd. (Found it... it's w95 4/15.) They held that the term Great Crowd could include those "with earthly hopes who are rendering Jehovah sacred service now," because after all, we are now in the period "just before the great tribulation breaks out."
"prospective members" of the great crowd="the great crowd"...oh, how I remember that wonderful little twist of reality! LOL
And why the heck do I keep referring to you as "Euph"? Old habits die hard!
Dan, you set me back on my heels! I still flounder with the idea that I was the only utter and complete fool that bought all this WTS crap hook, line, sinker, pole, boat and fleet...but every day I'm reminded that I was not alone!
Pissed, thanks for starting this thread...it brings back memories that I dare not forget.
Craig
Now I have a headache - I'm not sure a ' class ' system is particularly useful to the Christian faith.
Maybe the "other sheep not of this fold" could refer to people of righteous intent who are born into other religious groups and never find extraction?
I'm not saying it's a fact, a possibility maybe?
Blanko... most Bible commentators understand the 'other sheep' as referring to gentiles. They interpret the whole parable as referring to the joining of Jews and Gentiles in 'one flock' in the new Christian congregation.
I'm not a Christian, but that interpretation makes a lot of sense to me. IMHO.
Hmmmm... interesting. The Oxford dictionary refers to a Gentile as:
".... person not Jewish or heathen" (Heathen = not a Christian, Jew or Muslim)
The thoughts continue
Yes, I remember the distinction between the "Other Sheep" and the "Great Crowd of Other Sheep". Other Sheep will be all those who live on the paradise earth, resurrected ones. The Great Crowd of Other Sheep are those that go from this wicked system go thru Armegeddon and into the new system without having to die.
I remember elders talking about how this group, although not an elevated class, will be a class that everyone will want to talk to, talk about how bad the system got, what Armegeddon was like and what it was like to be survivors into the new system. The Great Crowd supposedly are the ones that clean up the mess, start organizing and get to gee the first ones to experience Jehovah's curative miracles, get to see the resurrection first..............
Hmmmm... interesting. The Oxford dictionary refers to a Gentile as:".... person not Jewish or heathen" (Heathen = not a Christian, Jew or Muslim)
According to Merriam Webster, "heathen or pagan" is definition #2. Definition #1 is "a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith; especially : a Christian as distinguished from a Jew."
E.g. from the KJV:
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Ac 10:45)
Or, same verse from the NWT:
And the faithful ones that had come with Peter who were of those circumcised were amazed, because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations.
