Elders appointed by Holy Spirit?

by LadyBug 41 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  LadyBug

  Jan
  

  the same holy spirit that helped them understand prophecy and all those ever changing teachings

  LOL Too right!
• 

  AGuest

  Dearest 'Wife'... may you have peace!

  Actually (sorry, everyone), the WTBTS' error in their teaching regarding the 'appointment' of elders is evident on several fronts.

  First "elders"... weren't 'appointed'... by holy spirit or by any other means. Elders... WERE elders... simply by means of their age. They were the 'older' men in the 'congregation', over age 50, the age at which service in the temple was not longer permitted. Yes, the priests HAD to retire at age 50, and were thereafter taken care of by the people. Same thing for widows at least age 60.

  Second, it was 'overseers' who were appointed... by the men of the congregation by means of holy spirit. However, there is no 'law' that said the women of the congregation had no input. (Acts 15:22) And the WTBTS teaching regarding the POSITION of 'overseers' is also an error. The overseers were 'appointed' NOT to as 'masters over our faith', but to OVERSEE... THE DISTRIBUTION to the widows, orphans and poor. This practice came to be during a certain period of distribution (the distribution being when those who had brought goods and money and gave it to the apostles to divide and DISTRIBUTE among those who did NOT have), when certain widows felt they were being overlooked for the benefit of other widows (the Hebrew-speaking over the Greek-speaking).

  Because the apostles has a 'commission' to go and 'make disciples', they determined that they didn't have time to stay and resolve the issue... and keep it from reoccurring. So, they instructed that seven men be APPOINTED... TO OVERSEE THE DISTRIBUTION, and that such men APPOINT... MINISTERIAL SERVANTS TO ASSIST them... that such distribution (perhaps some items of food and clothing had to be delivered to an ambulatory or infirm widow, etc.) could be handled lovingly and equitably.

  And so, because of the prevalence of theft and/or unfair division of the items, such overseers and servants had to meet certain requirements that would give credence to THEIR honesty, integrity and equitability.

  And that is ALL that occurred. There were no leaders, no popes, no reverends, no 'elders', no circuit overseers, no governing body. None of that, for there was no NEED. There were 'presbyters'... or older men... because there were men that were OLD(er) - sorry, guys. And there was reference to the 'ecclesia', because ALL of the congregation had been ANOINTED to BE 'priests'... in the kingdom of God.

  But, the congregation was joined... by spirit. And that spirit was/is ONE. They exhorted, admonished, reproved, encouraged, rebuked, and built up... ONE ANOTHER... by means of Christ, through holy spirit.

  It is man's desire to 'dominate man... to his injury' that brings upon us clergy, caste, hierarchy and other systems of religious institution. My Lord put an END to such 'systems' for his sheep. And it is NOT he that keeps breathing life BACK into them, but another. It is up to US, however, as to whether we will once again give ourselves OVER to such 'systems'... or remain 'chaste virgins' and NOT keep 'yoking' ourselves with 'unbelievers'.

  I bid you peace,

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  thinkers wife

  Interesting subject!! This was always one of my pet peeves! I just couldn't see how the elders could be appointed by HS, when so many of them were glaringly inadequate. I was in a very small congregation for almost seventeen years. When I started going there there were only 21 pubs. There was only one elder, a tryrant who ran the congregation like the army, it was his law or nothing. He made some very bad judgments and decisions which hurt people. Then another elder was appointed, out of sheer need to carry the work load IMO, and he has got to be one of the most unintelligent people I have had the dubious privilege of knowing! In that congregation it was kind of the "Old boys club", if you were in it you could get away with just about anything. If you weren't you couldn't fart in the wind without there being an announcement from the platform.
  I have just seen too many power hungry damaging elders claiming to be appointed by HS, to have any respect for it whatsoever.
  BTW, Mr. Elder Unintelligent has been disfellowshipped 3 or 4 times. How many times is the HS wrong?
  TW
• 

  OrangeBlossom

  I love this subject. In fact the other night hubby and I had this very same discussion with some friends (active JW's who still believe it is the truth) at dinner. Hubby asked them if they felt elders were appointed by holy spirit. A very emphatic NO was their reply.

  I have had the DISpleasure of being around too many "spirit-appointed" elders. I think Amazing posted recently about how appointments are really made. He was right on the money. I've seen it over and over again. I have seen good elders removed because their child made a mistake (child now back in good standing), never to be reappointed and other elders reappointed because they threw good parties, or were good drinkers and who's children never straightened up. I've heard of others (deserving, IMHO) never being appointed for lame reasons such as, "we considered you but your children do not record their field service, we see them out in service but they do not turn in their time, therefore, we feel you should not be appointed at this time. No lie! This guy is still not an elder, even though his son was appointed in another congregation. He remains humble and keeps plugging along.
• 

  buffalosrfree

  The only thing that appoints elders, in conforming to the borg, when they have kissed enough ass and conformed enough, then they are appointed by holy shit. Holy shit in that we have another ass kissing little prig who thinks he is someone special and like a lot of things in life he has made all the normal political stops along the ass kissing route to elderhood. Buff
• 

  beroea

  Elders appointed by Holy Spirit

  Still being an elder I can say for sure that appointing a new elder and the Holy Spirit are two different things.

  I have experience about appointing elder and next week they sit in front of the committee about a case of morality. It’s impossible that the Holy Spirit have appointed an elder that are not moral clean. Several times we also have major disagreement about appointing new elder. If the Holy Spirit were behind us all there would be no such fighting.

  So it’s just human being appointing elder nothing else. We can only hope that the new elder are good. Hope they are better that the old ones – only a few of those are good.

  Beroea
• 

  Undecided

  Hi BE'sWife,

  You left out one catagory:The only person available.

  When I was appointed the PO there was no one else that could have handled the responsibilities. I had been trained from my teenage years, having been accounts servant, terriroty servant, literature servant and some others I can't remember.

  It's kind of strange that I can't remember who served as my helpers when I was PO. I can remember one, my cousin, who later was Dfed for being a drunk after I had left the borg. I took care of most of the work, Ministry School servant, Wt. study conductor, cong. book study conductor, the accounts and assigning parts on the Service Meeting. I didn't have a minute for myself. I know we had a committee, but I can't remember who it was that served with me and my cousin.

  The ones who serve now were recruited by me and my cousin years ago, at least I think so since they called on me a few months ago to check to see if I had joined a church.LOL

  I never felt as though I had any holy spirit directing me. I didn't feel I deserved to be PO, but I performed the duties as best as I could. I got the congregation going, built the kingdom hall with the help of other brothers, and it grew very well.(there was no cong. here before a special pioneer(Lawrence Held and wife) came to help start one. I have some very good memories of those times but am glad to be free now.

  That was back in the 60s and the congregation was like a big family back then(most of the cong. were part of our family). I tend to remember the good things, keeps life more enjoyable.

  I didn't leave because of anger or disbelief, I was just tired of all the control of my time and life. Only recently did I examine the "truth" and find out how I wasted most of my youth on lies and false hopes. I'm still not mad, just disappointed, although at times when I read some of the post I get a little angy with the injustice I see.

  Good question,

  Ken P.
• 

  Enlighted UK

  I don't think even the elders that are still in know what they are doing, here is an example of one elder who DEFINITELY seems schizophrenic:

  One day out in the ministry, after advising my husband and I not to talk to my Mum, Dad and my husbands sister (who had all "drifted" out the org), he said that "although the organisation isn't perfect he thought it was better than anything else around".

  Then a few weeks later, after i had "seen the light" and left, the elder came around and, amongst other things, told me that the organisation was perfect (ie what the heck was i doing leaving it??)

  Then that same evening, the elder advised my husband and I not to let my non-attendance at meetings break up our marriage because the "truth isn't worth it".

  Now you tell me - what does he actually believe and is what he said inspired by Holy Spirit as well? I think he was inspired by the spirit (of the Jack Daniels variety).

  Enlighted UK
• 

  LDH

  When I was younger, I asked about this (13-14). I was told that the suggestions for elders were sent to Brooklyn, where the GB prayed over each appointee's name. I was told that the Holy Spirit said "yes" or "no."

  I was in awe.

  How stupid.
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello everyone,

  nice topic again!

  To Thirdson:

  "I thought that was in part to the PO who disliked me for questioning his motives and procedures on more than one occasion. " a very familiar rea son!

  and:
  "I didn't think the HS had anything to with my appointment and didn't see much evidence of it within the elder's body. "

  Good point. I do agree with you 100%! Btw the - common - question in this area of the world is:

  "Who appointed an elder - paedophile for many, many years - who , was proved in front of
  a Court of Law to be guilty of such a crime, BEFORE and DURING his "app.t" as an elder?"

  The possible answers are:

  - Jehovah's Holy spirit?

  - Jesus Christ?

  - Just few men in this planet earth?

  -We do not know.

  To Jukief:

  "the Society claims that elders are still "appointed by holy spirit" because the appointments are made "theocratically", i.e., local elders make a recommendation, then someone appointed by the Governing Body, God's specially appointed representative and spiritual authority over all mankind, approves the recommendation. The chain of assumptions leading to this bogus conclusion is obvious and is obviously bogus."
  
  A very good point indeed.

  "However, nowhere in publicly available Watchtower literature is it ever discussed where an elder goes bad and has to be removed. "
  Truly, this is an inaccurate statement. They (WTS) published material discussing that if an eleder sins seriously is no longer " free from accusation" therefore…you know the rest! The problem reamins the application of such statements. In reality, one can see that certain thing are never readjusted the " Biblical ways" expecially when - s o m e elders are involved.
  According to worldwide reports from brothers and sisters, this kind of situation exist
  in almost every congregation.

  To Jang:
  "
  The holy spirit that guides them to choose their elders and guide their elders is the same holy spirit that helped them understand prophecy and all those ever changing teachings .... "

  You have stated what many of us …are deeply convinced of. How can Jehovah's spirit
  Be involved in half-truths, lies, flip/flops etc.??

  To AGuest
  
  "Because the apostles has a 'commission' to go and 'make disciples', they determined that they didn't have time to stay and resolve the issue... and keep it from reoccurring. So, they instructed that seven men be APPOINTED... TO OVERSEE THE DISTRIBUTION, and that such men APPOINT... MINISTERIAL SERVANTS TO ASSIST them... that such distribution (perhaps some items of food and clothing had to be delivered to an ambulatory or infirm widow, etc.) could be handled lovingly and equitably."

  A good point, very logical and coming directly from the Scriptures.

  Agape to you all, J.C. MacHislopp