Is it clergy privilege?

by StarTrekAngel 27 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • StarTrekAngel
    StarTrekAngel

    Just wanted to pose the question to the group and see what the general opinion is vs what the WT may have claimed in other cases.

    We all know that they have argued over clergy privilege when elder learn of a crime but keep quiet about it. Regardless of what one may feel about this, lets assume for a minute that they are correct.

    All elders are directed to contact the branch when they learn of a case of child abuse. Would the conversation between the elder and the branch be considered under the "clergy privilege"? Doesn't clergy privilege apply only when a priest/pastor speaks with a congregant?

  • Simon
    Simon

    Yeah, "Corporate Coverup" would be more accurate.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow
    StarTrek: All elders are directed to contact the branch when they learn of a case of child abuse. Would the conversation between the elder and the branch be considered under the "clergy privilege"? Doesn't clergy privilege apply only when a priest/pastor speaks with a congregant?

    The directions for the elders to contact the legal department is to establish a lawyer-client relationship between the elders and the org. The phone call gives the elders legal representation and as such, all their communication with the org becomes confidential.

    However, once the elders contact the legal department, they themselves have broken the clergy-penitent privilege and for the life of me, I cannot understand how or why this so-called clergy "privilege" has been allowed to stand.

    The org protects their secret pedophile database through the concept of lawyer-client privilege, not clergy privilege.

    As per usual, the org wants their cake and eat it too: estoppel.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    However, once the elders contact the legal department, they themselves have broken the clergy-penitent privilege and for the life of me, I cannot understand how or why this so-called clergy "privilege" has been allowed to stand.

    As long as the elders do not divulge the name of the individual, I do not think there is the violation of clergy-penitent privilege any more than if a Catholic priest sought legal direction on a similar situation.

    I truly believe WTS has stepped up it's reporting of abuse in (US) States that require it. If your State does not have a mandatory reporting law for clergy, then the problem is your State politicians and you should contact them and change the laws.

    (Not an apologist, just trying to be unbiased.)

  • AbusedandPissed
    AbusedandPissed

    The courts have looked at this both in Deleware, Vermont and Ohio.

    The case in Vermont was the Berry case and the court did not answer it because they didn't need too. But the court did raise it. The court asked if a client comes into a lawyers office and speaks with a lawyer if that lawyer then talks to people in his firm including other lawyers and paralegals does that mean that the client can't expect privilege. The court seemed to indicate that it did not think so.

    In Ohio, it is the McFarland case where someone wrote letters to the service department. The Plaintiff's attorney claimed that because the letter may have been read by a number of different people that there is no privilege. The court ruled that regardless of how many people read it or know it it is what is the expectation of the person who started the communication. The court ruled that the letters that dealt with purely spiritual matters were a privilege, those that didn't speak of purely spiritual nature were not.

    In the Deleware case where the court found that there was no privilege. The court ruled in that manner not because multiple elders knew about it, which they did say would not have been a violation or a removal of the privilege. The court ruled that there was no privilege because the elders were the ones that initiated the conversation and that the teenage boy did not go to them. They also said that it was because the boy was punished by the reproof.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    I truly believe WTS has stepped up it's reporting of abuse in (US) States that require it.

    That's part of the problem, they will only do so if required by law.

    What about all the other states or countries that do not have these laws in place ?

    The WTS will conceal possible acts of pedophilia as it has many times before, with the same intent of protecting its outward public image or take no action because the said perpetrator doesn't admit to the act.

    dumb asses

  • AbusedandPissed
    AbusedandPissed

    Finkelstein:

    The only problem is that there are states and countries where the privilege states that a member of the clergy is not allowed to report it. Not that it is an option or not. Louisana, for example, their Supreme Court ruled in that fashion.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    that a member of the clergy is not allowed to report it

    And that is fucking absurd

    Are you sure never heard of that law in Louisiana ?

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister

    They have denied elders even are clergy in court in the past - When it suits their case.

    OC However, once the elders contact the legal department, they themselves have broken the clergy-penitent privilege and for the life of me, I cannot understand how or why this so-called clergy "privilege" has been allowed to stand.

    So true! And that's even assuming they go straight through to speak directly with a qualified lawyer and not have to outline the case first to another Bethel worker.



  • AbusedandPissed
    AbusedandPissed

    Parents of Minor Child v. Charlet,

    It dealt with the victim telling the priest of the sexual abuse. The victim sued the priest and the diocese over them not reporting the abuse. The victim revoked the privilege in the civil case. The priest and the diocese refused to testify because of how Louisana law is written both the priest and the person giving the communication can invoke the privilege. The diocese and priest said that it is canon law not to divulge the communication ever except within the priesthood. The court just last year ruled that because of how the law is written that the priest and the diocese are prevented from providing testimony.

    Actually very interesting that case went to the court of appeals twice for two separate issues. At one time the court actually ruled that the mandatory reporting was unconstitutional but that was overturned.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit