I read the french version of this Watchtower edition and it was clearly suggested that the end might be in 2034... Do you have any comment about it?
Watchtower: december 15th 2003 = 2034, Armageddon?
by Nicolas 11 Replies latest jw friends
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JenGill97
Really?
That's awful far away. when would they say their 144,000 would come from.
Jen :)
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blondie
Can you post the appropriate segment of the French version?
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kls
2034,that would make my husband 84yrs old.But i thought it was any day now.Same crap,keep the flock in line with death threats no matter how long it takes. kls
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Joker10
"it was clearly suggested"? or is it that you are trying to convince yourself they acually did predict?
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garybuss
*** w86 3/15 p. 19 Allow No Place for the Devil! ***
15 Yes, Jehovah's people have had to revise expectations from time to time. Because of our eagerness, we have hoped for the new system earlier than Jehovah's timetable has called for it. But we display our faith in God's Word and its sure promises by declaring its message to others. Moreover, the need to revise our understanding somewhat does not make us false prophets or change the fact that we are living in "the last days," soon to experience the "great tribulation" that will pave the way for the earthly Paradise. How foolish to take the view that expectations needing some adjustment should call into question the whole body of truth! The evidence is clear that Jehovah has used and is continuing to use his one organization, with "the faithful and discreet slave" taking the lead.
*** w84 12/1 p. 18 Keep Ready! ***
14 True, some expectations that appeared to be backed up by Bible chronology did not materialize at the anticipated time. But is it not far preferable to make some mistakes because of overeagerness to see God's purposes accomplished than to be spiritually asleep as to the fulfillment of Bible prophecy? Did not Moses make a 40-year miscalculation in trying to act ahead of time to remove Israel's affliction? (Genesis 15:13; Acts 7:6, 17, 23, 25, 30, 34) Were not Christ's apostles overanxious to see the Kingdom established, not to speak of their complete misunderstanding as to what the Kingdom really is? (Acts 1:6; compare Luke 19:11; 24:21.) Were not the anointed Christians in Thessalonica impatient to see "the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ" and "the day of Jehovah"?2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2.
15 There is nothing basically unscriptural in using chronology in efforts to learn "the appointed time" for the fulfillment of God's purposes.
*** w79 7/1 p. 29 How Jehovah Guides His People ***
17 However, during these "last days," have erroneous views about this system's end or telos (Greek) been held in advance by some of Jehovah's servants? Yes, they have. Some of these views involve the length of time it would take for the end to come. Out of zeal and enthusiasm for the vindication of Jehovah's name, Word and purposes, and the desire for the new system, some of his servants have at times been premature in their expectations. This is similar to the view that the disciples had as to the imminence of God's kingdom in their day. (Acts 1:6) But because expectations have at times been premature and so have not been fulfilled, does this mean that God has somehow changed his purpose? Not at all. "My own counsel will stand, and everything that is my delight I shall do," says Jehovah. (Isa. 46:10) Hence, Jehovah's purposes, and time, for establishing a righteous new order are firmly fixed.
Awake! 1993 3/22 Why So Many False Alarms?
[Footnotes]
Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.' The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah's Witnesses, has said: "We have not the gift of prophecy." (January 1883, page 425) "Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible." (December 15, 1896, page 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah's spirit "does not mean those now serving as Jehovah's witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes." (May 15, 1947, page 157) "The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic." (August 15, 1950, page 263) "The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)"February 15, 1981, page 19. -
RunningMan
Scans of the english article were posted here a while back. I don't know how it reads in French, but the english version seems to me to be just an illustration - Just as Noah waited a long time for the end, we should be prepared to also wait a long time.
I didn't see this as an endorsement of 2035 as the end, but rather a statement that there's still lots of time left.
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Elsewhere
Yep... just as they said... Moses screwed up too, only they failed to point out that he was condemed to not see the Promised Land.
Are Jehovah?s Witnesses False Prophets?
What does the bible say?
*** Reference Bible Deuteronomy 18:20-22 ***
20 "'However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it . You must not get frightened at him.'
*** Reference Bible
15 " Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them...
Have Jehovah?s Witnesses and the ?Faithful and Discrete Slave? ever made a false prediction of Jesus? Coming?
*** Awake! 1993 March 22 pp.3-4 Why So Many False Alarms? ***
Jehovah's Witnesses , in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.'
1889 "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889)
1908 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)
1917 "And the mountains were not found. Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy." (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 258)
1917 "It is the Day of Vengeance, which began in the world war of 1914 and which will break like a furious morning storm in 1918." (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 404)
1920 '...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of from the condition of death, being resurrected' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 88)
1920 'Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 89-90)
1922 "The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (The Watchtower, March 1, 1922)
1922 '1914 ended the Gentile Times...The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures...by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed' (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262)
1923 '1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures...the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge' (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106)
1925 "The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (Watchtower 1925, p. 56)
1940 The Kingdom is here, the King is enthroned. Armageddon is just ahead. The glorious reign of Christ that shall bring blessings to the world will immediately follow. Therefore the great climax has been reached. Tribulation has fallen upon those who stand by the Lord. (The Messenger, Sept. 1940, p. 6)
1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)
1989 Jehovah?s prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: ?This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.? (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment...
The Watchtower 1984 May 15 pp. 6-7
1989 "The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1989, p. 12 [bound volume changed "20th century" to "day"])
Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: 'This generation (of 1914) will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son's words in a relatively short time." {WT 6}
Do Jehovah?s Witnesses claim to be a prophet of Jehovah? Do Jehovah?s Witnesses claim that Jehovah God speaks through them?
*** Watchtower 1943 July 1 pp. 202-203 ***
Nothing is interpreted but the interpretation comes from God and is then published .
*** Watchtower 1957 June 15 p. 37 ***
It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.
*** Awake! 1986 June 8 p.9 "Would That All Were Prophets!" ***
You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets , or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses.
*** Watchtower 1960 July 15 p. 439 ***
"The 'slave' class has served as God's sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time."
*** Watchtower 1964 June 15 pp.365-6 Jehovah, the God of Progressive Revelation ***
THE KINGDOM'S ESTABLISHMENT
22 As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale . All this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it. The abundance of spiritual food and the amazing details of Jehovah's purposes that have been revealed to Jehovah's anointed witnesses are clear evidence that they are the ones mentioned by Jesus when he foretold a "faithful and discreet slave" class that would be used to dispense God's progressive revelations in these last days. [...]
23 The holy spirit of Jehovah is working mightily today! How thankful we should be for the provision God has made of this slave class, the modern spiritual remnant, as they faithfully dispense the revealed truths of Jehovah ! With these rich truths to light the way, Christians do not grope in this dark, jungle-like world as do the masses of people in Christendom and heathendom alike. To the contrary, Jehovah's faithful witnesses have been progressively brought to an understanding of Jehovah's purposes, which are clearer now than ever before in history . Their organization, being patterned after the first-century Christian congregation, is blessed by Jehovah. He has prospered their work of preaching "this good news of the kingdom" in 194 different lands to date. Each year they gather into the organization tens of thousands of new ministers, clearly a product of Jehovah's spirit operating through his invisible King-Son and his angelic representatives, then through his faithful slave class on earth today.- . 24:14.
*** Watchtower 1964 October 1 p.601 Pay Attention to Prophecy ***
for God has on earth today a prophetlike organization , ... Jehovah's anointed witnesses on earth.
*** Watchtower 1965 June 1 p.352 Questions from Readers ***
New features of the work have required new methods, which has meant revisions and changes from time to time in organization instructions, but it is all a part of the advancement of Jehovah's theocratically controlled organization under the immediate direction of Jehovah God himself. Therefore, these revisions and changes are themselves fully theocratic, so they do not alter in any way the fully theocratic structure of the organization.
*** Watchtower 1972 August 1 p.458 Loving Oversight of the Congregation of God ***
THEOCRATIC APPOINTMENT IN THE CONGREGATION
10 But who is at the head of this rapidly expanding congregation, you ask? Is it some brilliant, farsighted man, some human who is a master organizer? No, for the Christian congregation is operated theocratically, meaning that it recognizes the leadership only of Jehovah God as exercised through his Son and enthroned King, Jesus Christ. (Isa. 33:22; Heb. 12:2; Rev. 19:16) This is what makes the congregation theocratic in structure, adhering to God-rule. If an organization is to be fully theocratic, it must be directed and controlled altogether by God and by the forces he operates. It is vital, therefore, that each one recognize that Jesus Christ is the Head of the Christian congregation, as well as showing proper regard for those on earth who have been theocratically appointed to positions of oversight.-Phil. 2:9-11; 1 Cor. 11:3; Acts 14:23.
*** Watchtower 1981 February 15 p.19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***
OUR VIEW OF THE "SLAVE"
We can benefit from this consideration. If we have once established what instrument God is using as his "slave" to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using . At the headquarters from which the Bible publications of Jehovah's Witnesses emanate there are more mature Christian elders, both of the "remnant" and of the "other sheep," than anywhere else upon earth.
*** Watchtower 1981 December 1 p.27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***
Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones ... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.
*** Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12 You Can Live Forever in on Earth-But How? ***
A third requirement is that we be associated with God's channel, his organization. ... Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.
The Watchtower recognizes the truth as belonging to Jehovah, and not to any creature. The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men. No man?s opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will.
(Watchtower 1931 November 1 p. 327)
Jehovah God is therefore the only Supreme Court of interpretation of His inspired word.... To such remnant of faithful servants of Jehovah God Christ Jesus has entrusted all ?his goods?, or earthly interests of the Kingdom. This does not signify that the faithful remnant or society of Jehovah?s anointed witnesses are an earthly tribunal of interpretation, delegated to interpret the Scriptures and its prophecies. No; Christ Jesus the King has not entrusted that office to them. THE SUPREME COURT STILL INTERPRETS, thank God; and Christ Jesus, the Court?s official mouthpiece of interpretation, reserves to himself that office as head of Jehovah?s ?faithful and wise servant? class. He merely uses the ?servant? class to publish the interpretation after the Supreme Court by Christ Jesus reveals it.
(Watchtower 1943 July 1 p. 202, 203)
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Nicolas
It wasn't clearly subjected at all but, as usual, they used their twisted words... Tour de Garde du 15 Décembre 2003 Extraits: "§ 6 : "Aux jours de Noé, Jéhovah a déclaré " Mon esprit n'agira pas envers l'homme indéfiniment, puisqu'il est également chair. Aussi ses jours se monteront-ils à cent vint ans." ( Genèse 6:3) Ce decret divin émis en 2490 avant notre ère à marqué le commencement de la fin pour le monde impie. Songez à ce qu'il signifiait : plus que 120 ans et Jéhovah allait amener" un déluge d'eau sur la terre, pour ravager de dessous les cieux toute chair dans laquelle la force de vie est en action" - Genèse 6:17 § 7 (...) Et nous ? Voilà près de 90 ans, depuis 1914 , que nous vivons les derniers jours de ce système de choses."