Did Jesus die on a stake or pole? (page 3)

EverApostate

HE DIED WAS THE IMPORTANT THING

I respectfully disagree. Why should an innocent man be brutally tortured and Killed in the most painful way, in order to forgive the sins of humans ?

Even this "Forgiving the sins of humans" is hypothetical with NO tangible or practical outcome.

LoveUniHateExams

If the Romans wanted to kill someone, they wouldn't go all PC Snowflake - indeed.

I remember one 'argument' the WTS has for a stake and not a cross is that the supposed origin of the cross is for the pagan god Tammuz.

The WTS claims (I think) that this makes the cross pagan. Well, so what? The Romans, being pagan themselves at that point, wouldn't give a crap, would they ...

ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara

@Everapostate, I was just pedalling the teaching that a person giving thier life for another should be valued more than on what did he die?

I personally do not give a rats ass about jesus, god or any religion. I respect peoples opinions thats it.

Maybe my english is poor so came across wrong dunno..

Zing

EverApostate

Roger that ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara.

By the way, are you from India ? I see Hindi in your Username.!!!

Sea Breeze

Why should an innocent man be brutally tortured and Killed in the most painful way, in order to forgive the sins of humans ?

Because "the wages of sin is death". This was a ground rule for the governance of moral creatures, a royal proclamation and cannot be reneged upon. Jesus' willing sacrifice provided the legal payment for everyone who receives it (not just Adam) so that death can be eventually abolished.

The gift that God gives is life. The death of Jesus allows us to experientially, not just academically, participate in the reality of good and evil without a permanent personal death penalty being applied to us.

But, why not just get rid of the death penalty instead? That's an interesting question worthy of exploring.

EverApostate

Because "the wages of sin is death". This was a ground rule for the governance of moral creatures, a royal proclamation and cannot be reneged upon

And then why do animals and other species other than human die ? Have they also sinned ?

And bringing death and suffering upon the whole human race, for just one act of disobedience is way way too much where the punishment doesnt Equal the offence. Total Injustice...

Also, I dont consider Death as a Royal Proclamation - rather a sadistic one, if at all this was decided by an Almighty.

Doug Mason

I had not looked into this "stake versus cross" debate for some years (decades).

At the time, my understanding was that the WTS said the merits of Jesus' death were applied solely to the 144,000. They appeared to confirm this wit their practice at their annual "Memorial". Is this still the case?

Secondly, I cannot comprehend their "Ransom" reasoning. If Jesus's death paid a price, to whom does the WTS say it was paid? Who was holding them captive? After having the Ransom paid, can it still be forfeited and the payment returned?

If you would like to see the pictures from Justus Lipsius' book that the NWT used to cite in its NWT:

https://jwstudies.com/Pictures_from_Lipsius_de_Cruce_Liber_Primus.pdf

I guarantee that these are genuine, as I had them copied in the 1970s from an original book held at the Victorian State Library in Melbourne, Australia.

Doug

Doug Mason

Sea Breeze,

"The wages of sin is death".

My understanding is that according to the Biblical narrative, Cain was the first sinner, and his action certainly resulted in death.

Adam and Eve were simply prevented from accessing the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Bad. In other words, they were refused access to the knowledge of everything, which would have made them the same as the gods.

Doug

sweetyj

Thanks for your input everyone. Sometimes they do like to nitpick only because somehow the tiniest of differences is supposed to set the org apart and make them the truth.

Did Jesus die on a stake or pole?

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