Yesterday my brother came to visit for the day, so we could visit our stepfather in the nursing home, and our cousin in the hospital, and we went to lunch, and came back to my house, picked up our 87 year old father, who lives with me, and went to visit our 88 year old mother, Dad's ex-wife. They get along great......now!! All of us are ex dubs, (NOT MOM) and brother dear is df'd, but only for 23 years, ha hahahaha. After we were there a short time, he started talking about the trauma he went through when his wife died in 1977, and how he hated it when the dubs talked about the resurrection, and how that was NO comfort at all. I agreed with him, and said that was something I could never understand, since they leave such a gap in your life, and the resurrection was so far off. All of us were loyal dubs in those days. Mom put her fingers in her ears.........we were so shocked, and started laughing. She got mad, thinking we were having fun at her expense. So we backed off. But, it's hard to NOT talk about the stuff I read on this board, and all the inside things I have come to know. At one point she said she only believes what is in the Bible, and not what men say, so brother asked "where is it in the Bible that it says you can't offer me a cup of coffee or make me a sandwich when I come to visit you." She got up and asked if he wanted anything now. He declined but told her that was the first time in 23 years she had offered him anything. It got worse. My brother asked me how the pedophile issue was coming along, and she freaked again. Then they started talking about a radio show Mom and brother listen to late night, (seemed a safe subject) and how weird it is (Art Bell). It was fine, until I told about a great little story I had gotten in an email yesterday, about a little boy (3 years old), who literally died in an accident and was brought back by the paramedics. He told his parents about the "birdies" that came and made him feel better, and how they were white and warm, etc., and told him he had to go back now and tell everyone about the birdies. (I posted this story on this board too, called 'the birdies') It was just a neat little story, but Mom got up and left the room. Again, we laughed. She came back and asked if we were through talking about that subject. It went on like that for about 20 minutes, with us talking about all kinds of things, and she went into her bedroom again, one last time, so my Dad said "let's go". And we did. Does anyone else have a parent like this? My brother and I feel so handicapped in talking to her. I called her after I got home, and told her it seems like children should be able to talk to their mother about anything that concerns them or is of interest to them. She hung up on me. Oh well, she got her check from us last week, (we help to support her) so she can play this game for another month.
Further adventures with Mom
by Mulan 14 Replies latest jw friends
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LDH
Mulan,
As you know, my mom is about 30 years younger than your mom, but the behavior is the same. The self-righteous martyr complex is so strong in them.
They will never change. Ever. You do have to monitor the conversations; hard to do it from a JW viewpoint when you're no longer a JW.
When my parents visited recently, my girlfriend stopped by and was telling my parents how impressed they were; Eden was the only child they got a thank you note from for her Christmas present. (I should add this couple is childless and bought toys for neices, nephews, friends, etc.) My mother made no effort to hide the look of sheer disgust on her face at the mention of Christmas. It was embarrassing. (Thank God my girlfriend's mom is a Bulemic Diabetic! LOL at least she understands.)
Put up with it, it's hard.
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Had Enough
Hi Mulan:
I so understand your frustration with your mom. I haven't even tried to talk to my mom about what I've learned since I stopped attending meetings for a couple reasons....we could never talk on any thinking level at all that wasn't of WTS origin and we just were never close enough to really have one-on-one mother-daughter talks ever anyway.
As for having any intellectual discussions with her I soon realized how much more entrenched she had become when she visited us one time. My husband liked to watch "Mysteries of the Bible" and other documentaries of Bible times because he always wanted to know what the Bible taught but didn't like the way our pubs. always seemed so slanted one way and explanations didn't seem logical. So I enjoyed watching it with him at first to pick out their errors and then when I was just starting to question things, I began to see other explanations for things recorded.
So, when that show came on TV, she practically jumped out of her chair to get away when they started reading a passage from the Bible about an event. It didn't matter that it was coming from the Bible, it just wasn't coming from the pubs. so it can't be true. We just shook our heads and I was embarassed that my husband felt it necessary to change the channel to keep her calm.
Another time, when we were sitting outside at my in-laws,' my sweet non-JW father-in-law thought he would be nice to my mom and play his gospels tape for her. When she realized what they were, she again practically jumped out of her chair again to get away...I guess the music was mysteriously going to give her leprousy or something. But again, I was embarassed to try to explain to him that because it wasn't 'her' religious music, she felt it was bad to listen to his.
Maybe all we can do sometimes is just shake our heads and let them keep their heads in the clouds. I know, given my mom's age and medical condition, she'll never be able to grasp anything controversial about the borg. now. She can't even grasp their own changes like the 'generation' thing.
But you never know, perhaps something you folks say to your mom may not register right now, but maybe later something may happen to trigger the memory of something said, and "the bells and whistles may go off in her head". I hope so for your sake.
For me, it's too late with my mom.
Had Enough
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CPiolo
Mulan:
I'm married to a much younger version of your mom. It really leaves little to talk about and share with her, making it a very shallow marriage indeed.
Peace and blessings,
CPiolo
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Mulan
It helps to know that my mother isn't the only one like this. My youngest son pointed out to me later that day, that when he or his girlfriend start saying anything to me about their church, that I freeze up too, so it was a lesson to me not to do that to them. I would usually tell them that I just don't believe what they do, and try to change the subject. Grrrr. I just hate that. I don't want to be like her. But it's in the genes, I guess. Honestly though, it isn't fear that motivates my saying that, but irritation, at my son's getting swallowed into a religion so fast after leaving the Borg. To me, it's just all the same thing, but to them it is very much NOT the same thing. Oh well. Life goes on. I don't make it unpleasant for them, but I do make it clear that I give my son the freedom to believe whatever he wants to, and if it works for him, I am happy for him. Just don't try to make me feel that my eternal salvation depends on MY doing what they are doing, and believing what they believe. I am just so turned off by any religion.
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Prisca
You guys are so lucky to have mothers to be exasperated over.
Some of us don't have mothers - mine died when I was 11 - 20 years ago this coming Wednesday. I won't have my mother beside me if/when I get married. I won't have her there when I give birth to children. She won't be there to offer advice on marriage, relationships, children, life etc.
I know you are struggling with JW issues with your family members, but there is so much more to having family relationships. Enjoy your mother while she is still with you. Consider yourself fortunate that you had her beside you during your biggest life moments.
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Mulan
My mother won't be at the wedding of my youngest son, next month, nor was she at my second son's wedding four years ago. She didn't even come to my eldest son's wedding in 1989. She was at my daughter's wedding in 1988, but made me wish for hours, that she had had the good sense to stay home. People like that have to be the center of attention, or they just aren't comfortable. If they aren't at the center, they put themselves there, by making a scene, or some other foolishness. So, don't think that just because I have a mother, that she is there for me, or for her grandchildren. It all depends on whether she FEELS like it.
By the way, the reason she is absent from weddings now, is because they are in churches. She wasn't at my eldest son's KH wedding because they lived in another state at that time, and didn't want to drive for 10 hours to get here, so they left home the day before the wedding and didn't actually get into town until the day after. Why they bothered, I have no idea.
She didn't go to any of my kid's baptisms, nor high school graduations, my baby showers or anything else that mattered to me or to them. They lived in the same town then too, as they do now. When I had my third child, 31 years ago, I wanted her to be with me, but she had a new love, after being divorced from my father, and didn't want to miss any sleep. I know that sounds really petty, and it was. At that time, she was about the age I am now. I can't conceive of that, not being there for my kids. At least she taught me how to be a mother.........or not.
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teejay
Mulan,
My mom raised six kids in the truth. The truth played a part in the
divorce of her marriage to our father. She is a loyal witness today,
after almost forty years.All but one of us six siblings are either inactive or df'd for many years.
Still, she was with us when we got together Memorial Day weekend.
We spent good hours together, talking about many things, but not
religion. It's a long story, and I won't go into it now, but once us kids
were in a conversation that bore on our JW experience and Mama's
feelings were hurt. We all let her know that the conversation didn't
involve her, but was our recollections that we had carried for many
years. We've never talked about religion since then.This past Memorial Day, my mom did approach me about a matter
that she was dealing with in her Hall. It was a matter that ordinarily
would be handled by an elder, or by my brother, who's a 47 year old
self-righteous MS and the only Witness kid in the family. Instead, she
put it before me. I guess she thought she could trust me and that I
would respect her. It made me feel very good because she was right.I will never be a JW again, but I know how they think, having been
one myself for 30+ years. So, when "counseling" my mother, I did so
from her perspective. I didn't tell her what I wanted to tell her but I
gave her advice that she could use. It was, for her, a situation
that could get serious and I treated the subject that way, even though,
to me, it was all bs. But I'm not a Witness. She is.My point is, from what I've seen from you, you seem to be a sensitive
person. You also seem to insist on your 'right' to talk about whatever
you want when in your mother's company. It was funny when she
stuck fingers in her ears. Yes, it was childish of her, but I would never,
never, NEVER put my mother in the position of having to do that with
something I was talking about. I would be the first to either shut up or
tell my older siblings to shut up, even in my own home. She's my mother.An anecdote:
The baby of our family, my sister, is 42. She has discovered that her
18 year old son smokes. She has comes to grips with it, considering
that he could be doing many things that are much worse, but has
informed him that she does not ever want to see him smoking, even
when he has his own home and family. I liked very much what she
said and hope that he honors her in this. She and I are from the old
school that respects our older ones.What you are doing to your mother in exercising your rights is wrong.
My advice? Print out what Prisca said just above and give it a lot of
thought. One day your mom will be gone and then you and your
brother can talk about whatever the hell you two want to until your
ears fall off.Just my opinion.
peace,
todd -
Mulan
Well, you sure have a right to your opinion. All I can say is, that she is not your mother, and you can't imagine what it's like. It seems that religion is only allowed to be talked about, if she is doing the talking. Then we are supposed to listen to her, but it doesn't go the other way. She is offended if we tell her we don't want to hear it. It sounds like your mother is a totally different person. I am jealous of that. My mother has always been a problem for my brother and me, and a constant source of embarrassment.
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JW72
Prisca, I'm really sorry to hear about your mum.
In defence of Mulan, though, the reason it is worse for her, is that her mum CHOOSES to not be with her.
I don't want to be cold about it but that's what I think.
Hugs to Prisca and Mulan
Chris