Jesus and the Fig Tree (page 2)

JCanon

So by positing three different visits by three different Mary Magalenes, not only were there three separate people with the same uncommon name but there would have to be at least two different "Mary the mother of James," and thus two different James who both had a mother named Mary. That's a bit much to swallow.

I can understand your tendency to simply assign this to an error or inter-gospel contradiction. But the details of each of the visits all occur at different times. As I noted, the number of Marys around there was much like you'd find in Latin America where Mary's (Maria's) and Jesus's are extremely common. Thus it could have been very likely since Magdala was not far away that three Mary's happened to come from there.

But putting that aside, let's just say there was an unusual coincidence where there happened to be three Marys could called themselves Mary Magdalene. If all the disciples knew of these three by the same name, then it would be confusing or contradictory as they related their stories just what happened. In that case, so that there would not be confusion among those who knew the three Marys would be to describe in one gospel or the other the visit of each.

Further, each of the women seemed to be attached to a household and the name Magda, Magdalene or Madeline in German means Maid. Thus it is thought that perhaps "Magdalene" was understood as some type of a profession or status per that custom, the details of which were lost.

This is just offered as a possibility that resolves the conflict between the accounts without first presuming the NT Bible writers couldn't coordinate their stories; I prefer to give the writer the benefit of the doubt rather than to speculate with modern bias. The contrast to your position is that if we could go back in a time machine we might find there were dozens of girls called "Mary Magdalene" and it just so happened that three of them were attached to households close to Jesus.

Mary, the mother of James, by the way, is Jesus' own mother. James was the brother of Jesus.

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slenderdog

Leo I am only slightly familiar with the non-canonical books you are discussing. Could you recommend a book or url where I can learn more? Thanks

Leolaia

These are some of the books I use:

*****The New Jerusalem Bible (which had the Apocrypha)
*****The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, edited by James H. Charlesworth (2 volumes; this has 1 Enoch, 2 Enoch, 2 Baruch, 4 Ezra, Jubilees, Testament of Abraham, etc.)
*****The Apostolic Fathers, edited by Michael W. Holmes (which has 1 Clement, 2 Clement, Didache, Barnabas, Ignatius, Polycarp, Hermas, Papias, etc.)
*****The Complete Gospels, edited by Robert J. Miller (which has Gospels of Thomas, Peter, Secret Mark, Gospel of Mary, Egerton Gospel, etc.)
*****New Gospel Parallels, edited by Robert W. Funk (which places all the gospels side by side by passage)
*****The Nag Hammadi Library, edited by James M. Robinson (which has the entire collection of gnostic texts in one place)
*****The Dead Sea Scrolls, edited by Geez Vermes (which has Essene sectarian writings)
*****The Ante-Nicene Fathers (which has Irenaeus, Tertullian, Athenagorus, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Theophilus, Melito of Sardis, etc.)
*****The Ugaritic Baal Cycle, edited by Mark S. Smith (look for other Ugartic literature from Ras Shamra)

I especially love New Gospel Parallels -- it's one of the most useful references I have ever had on the subject.

Leolaia

slenderdog.....here is an overview:

http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/outside2.stm

And for specific information on individual works, this is the best site on the internet:

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Leolaia

observador

Leolaia,

very interesting thread. I enjoy your bringing out these topics, but please change your avatar. I liked the other one much better .

Carmel

IMHO Jesus reference to the fig tree was a metaphore for the status of Judiasm. If it no longer produced as a function of following the laws of God, nor was it able to recognize Him as the divine messenger and Son of God, then it (Judiasm) was fit for the fire. When you think about it, Judiasm has shrunk over the centuries to where it barely has 10 million adherents. Not too many are converting from other religions to become Jews, certainly nothing like the other dualistic recruiting religions.

carmel