We talk a lot about conditional friends on here

by cappytan 44 Replies latest jw friends

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  Pete Zahut

  I agree, pretty much everything is conditional in one way or another.

  When it comes to JW's you not only have the usual conditions that one expects a friend to comply with (honesty, trust, kindness) you also must not disagree with their religious beliefs or even have a honest discussion about your true thoughts on that subject. You can be a true decent honest friend but if you don't hold their particular religious beliefs, you are eliminated from their life or at best, kept at arms length. The irony is, that they view themselves as being persecuted if their non Witness relatives give them a hard time about being JW's, yet they turn around and do the same thing themselves.
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  tim3l0rd

  I agree with you. There are always conditions to any relationship. The question is who is setting the conditions. Are the conditions set between me and the other person alone or is some outside entity setting the conditions?

  BTW…having gone through divorce and so forth, THEN a year later having gone through being shunned by everyone I knew including family ... isolating someone is one of the most worst things you can do to a person.

  I went through the exact same thing; divorce and then df'd a year later. Being isolated and shunned is the single worst experience of my life. I loved my ex and was devastated when she left, but being shunned by everyone I knew was so much worse.
  
  
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  Oubliette

  Cappy, as always you bring up some really good points.

  I agree that relationships are conditional. They just are.

  You didn't make the distinction though between the terms "unconditional friendship" and "unconditional love."

  Not intending to derail the thread, just add to it, but those are not the same thing.

  A parent could, for example, love a wayward child and even end the relationship but still have love for the child.

  Clearly such a thing is unlikely to exist between friends of any kind.
  
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  LevelThePlayingField

  Say a brother is DA'd or DF'd for a valid or invalid reason. Now all the other JW friends of this person now suddenly are not friends to this person because of the announcement from the platform yet those mutual friends have done nothing in their friendship to each other at all to meet any type of conditions that would warrant an end to that friendship. THAT is where the JW conditional friendship does not make any sense.
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  millie210

  There are always conditions to any relationship. The question is who is setting the conditions. Are the conditions set between me and the other person alone or is some outside entity setting the conditions?

  Excellent point.

  Under normal conditions, a person attracts or is attracted to friends that appeal to them. The code the friendship operates under would be workable to both parties.

  Thats probably where we get that old saw "Birds of a feather flock together" or "Theres someone for everyone".

  The problem is when something outside the friendship such as in this case JW ism tells you who to be friends with and what the conditions are.
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  Oubliette

  LTPF, the scenario you describe is important because you draw attention to the difference between an individual ending a relationship for reasons known to them and institutionalized shunning. A very important distinction to make.
  
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  Simon

  At some point you have to say that if the conditions are so trivial and so easily transgressed then were they ever sufficient to be classified as "friendship".

  I talk to the guy in Subway quite a lot. We always have a good chat. He makes me a nice sandwich. Is he my friend? What if it's conditional on him putting enough meat on my sub?

  The point with the JWs is that the conditions and criteria for suddenly not being a friend are nowhere near what most people would consider reasonable if you considered a person a close friend in the first place.

  One of those has to give - either they weren't really a close friend before or the conditions are serious enough to consider a close friendship betrayed.

  "I stopped believing in what some old guy I don't know, half way across the world prints in a magazine" doesn't seem like a legitimate reason to come between genuine friendship especially when it's often to the point that they won't even be willing to listen to your side of things.
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  Simon

  The problem is when something outside the friendship such as in this case JW ism tells you who to be friends with and what the conditions are.

  That is influence - we have those all around us for everything, the person still has to decide. A real friend would at least hear you out. So many of us discovered our "friends" wouldn't even do that.
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  Oubliette

  Simon: A real friend would at least hear you out. So many of us discovered our "friends" wouldn't even do that.

  Yes, and that helps define the difference between real friends and the artificial ones inside of a religious cult.

  Worse than that of course is that those same false beliefs can sever familial relationships. It would be bad enough if the beliefs were true, but as they are not it is tragic.
  
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  Diogenesister

  BTW…having gone through divorce and so forth, THEN a year later having gone through being shunned by everyone I knew including family, I’m not sure a friend sleeping with my wife would automatically be a dealbreaker for either my friendship or marriage. Of course, I’ve never had that specific experience, so I can’t say for sure. But being shunning made me reevaluate things. Apart from physical violence or sexual assault,isolating someone is one of the most worst things you can do to a person.

  I agree Londo 111, I think the JW's way over estimate how damaging sleeping with someone else is to a relationship.

  Sure, its not good, but I for one can think of a lot worse than doing one of the 3 things we humans are programmed by nature to do (breathe, eat, procreate)as you mention violence for one, sexual or otherwise.

  Edit: and isolation is TORTURE as you rightly said, its cruel. Much more unforgiveable & unnatural