I'm a new study, unsure a little uncertain. Help??

by Meow921 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Meow921
    Meow921

    Hello,
    I recently started doing some studying of Jehovahs Witnesses, and I find most everything so logical, and the people involved have been so nice to me. I'm 30, and currently am not associated with any denomination.

    What I don't understand is how the word "cross" got translated into the Bible if it's not right. Aren't we supposed to believe the Bible?
    Does it really matter if Christ was crucified on a cross or a stake?

    Also, what is a new Witness to do if his/her family doesn't support the same beliefs, and still wants to participate in Christmas festivities? My husband says that he believes in Jesus, and doesn't associate Christmas with his birth. He associates it with a time of year to celebrate life and family, and he doesn't see it as disrespectful of God or anti God.

    I know that only 2 birthdays are mentioned in the Bible, and they were both for people who were not good people. How does this mean that birthdays aren't to be celebrated at all?

    Thanks for any help anyone may have. I don't mean to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand. I'm just trying to find my place in the world, if you know what I mean.....

    Katherine

  • kes152
    kes152

    Hi Katherine,

    Nice to meet you. you said:

    I know that only 2 birthdays are mentioned in the Bible, and they were both for people who were not good people. How does this mean that birthdays aren't to be celebrated at all?

    Actually, that's not correct.

    There are 3 birthdays mentioned in the scriptures. The third one is in

    Genesis 21:8

    If you can't celebrate a "birthday" why celebrate this?

    Also, what is a new Witness to do if his/her family doesn't support the same beliefs, and still wants to participate in Christmas festivities?

    Usually, they will tell you to make sure you personally don't celebrate any of it. You can gather with your family, just don't engage in the celebration.

    Does it really matter if Christ was crucified on a cross or a stake?

    No, it doesn't matter at all. Whether it was a cross or stake, you don't want to go "carrying it around." Christ considered the "instrument" he died on a "curse" to him. Not something you want to remember.

    I was a JW. It's terrible how at first everything seems nice and true and they have scriptures to back everything up. The BAD part is that once you get baptized, if you ever disagree with what is printed, you are an automatic "apostate" and are "expelled" immediately.

    My 'issue' was that I had proof, and they cannot refute it to this day. They rather stick to the Watchtower, even if its wrong and HOPE doctrine "changes" rather than simply obey because it is in the scriptures."

    peace to you,
    Aaron

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    G'day Katherine,

    Nice to 'hear' from you and welcome.

    You've come to the right place with your question. Many here have many years of experience as JWs. As you can tell, those years are past now, so they can inform you of what you may be facing as a JW.

    I believe it's right to have the Christian faith. The question is, though, are the JWs the 'true' Christians that they claim to be? Or, indeed, are they Christian at all?

    Examine carefully before you dedicate your life to an organisation. (A baptism candidate is asked to publicly declare their beliefs before they are baptised. There are 2 questions. The second is where you will be asked to declare your obedience to an organisation.) Be warned. Please.

    I have found that there are many good books to answer the questions you raise. Try Amazon or the Freeminds sites for books available.

    Personally I like this one:

    Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses: Ron Rhodes, published by Harvest House ISBN 1-56507-106-9

    Enjoy your reading.

    Cheers,
    Ozzie

    Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

  • God_knows
    God_knows

    Jesus WAS crucified on a cross, and not a stake. The Translation is correct and it is important that the whole truth be recognised, AND TAUGHT CORRECTLY. For it is an offense to God to change even one word of the bible.

    You will find that the JWs have many odd beliefs that do not jive with true scripture. Be wary.

    Even nonbiblical historical records show that hanging on a CROSS what the common form of execution. NO STAKES, beloved one.

    Hey, you know, you can write to me any time if you have any questions. I would love to help you study.

    Peace to you.

  • logical
    logical

    I think this pic applies to the JW's too. Listen to what Kes152 said, im glad he got to answer your questions before some of the idiots did.

    Dont get involved with ANY religious organisation, they are all trouble.

    Aaron - what about the days mentioned in Job (cant remember where) are they also birthdays?

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    Hi, Katherine!

    I am going to try to reach you from a different perspective. One who got married as a non-Witness to a nominal Catholic and had to deal all the time with the non-celebration of birthdays/Christmas issues.

    Kes/Aaron is right about these events: "Usually they will tell you to make sure you personally don't celebrate any of it. You can gather with your family, just don't engage in the celebration."

    This was a constant source of friction between my husband and my family and I for all the time I was in (I walked away from the Society almost 3 months ago after 11 years baptized, way more than that "associated").

    Question: Who does the shopping for Christmas and birthdays in your family? As a Witness, you no longer can, and that means hubby will have to take up the slack if he wants to continue celebrating and being in good graces with the family. You shouldn't even accompany him for the shopping. This breeds resentment and discontent.

    Do you have children yourselves? Their lives will change radically if you raise them as the spiritual head of the household is supposed to do.

    It does NOT matter to any thinking person whether Jesus died on a cross or on a torture stake. No matter its shape, it was the instrument of his death, the death that paid a ransom for all mankind and enables believers to aspire to everlasting life. THAT's the point. That it should not be an object of worship is probably correct.

    To me the problems that you are having with the cross, the birthdays, the Christmas are not a matter of your trying to be "difficult." Actually they are the first signs your thinking brain is giving you that unreasonable, illogical demands are being placed on you that could have real, negative impact on your life and your relationships with the people who TRULY love you.

    Many who have studied with Jehovah's Witnesses and "progressed to the point of dedication and baptism" find that the congregation takes a great interest in them when they are studying. Then, unless they become a zealous publisher in field service with excellent meeting attendance, the love and warmth rapidly fades. It sounds very jaded to say this, and you likely won't believe it, but it's true. Once you're "caught", they move on to the next candidate for baptism and you're on your own. (Unless you've got a great personality that REALLY mixed with your study conductor's and she's in the "in" group, then you're "in" by association.) I never heard it described that way until I visited this forum, but they "love bomb" you when you're new and you're left to pick up the pieces once you're a JW yourself.

    Ozzie is right to question whether the Witnesses really are Christians at all. There is so much that Christ preached that they do NOT practice, in hindsight (which is where I'm viewing this from).
    I would highly recommend reading the book he suggested as well as others you will find if you do a search at amazon.com or freeminds.org

    And Aaron is correct to explain that you do "pledge allegiance" not just to the Father and Son at a JW baptism, but actually, the only place the holy spirit is mentioned is in connection with your oath (and they legally view the 2nd question as an "oath" or "induction" into their religious club) to become a member of Jehovah's "spirit-directed organization." So you actually are baptized in the name of the Father, Son (1st question) and the "spirit-directed organization." (2nd question) This is not even CLOSE to the formula given in Matthew 28:19.

    I'm worrying that this all sounds a bit vitriolic, and I'm not meaning it to.

    Other points I'd like to make:

    The assertion that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 is just that -- an assertion. There is no Biblical proof to support it, and it isn't even the original date the Society published for his return, if you dig into its history.

    The assertion that the 144,000 is a literal number of specially anointed beings who only have the heavenly hope is also not Scripturally provable. For one, Revelation is written in symbols, for another, if you look at the two sheepfolds illustration, most understand that to mean that the Gentiles would now be welcomed into the sheepfold of the chosen, which heretofore was open only to Jews who had accepted the Christ.

    Katherine, I could go on at length. But really, YOU need to investigate yourself (as you have begun to do, here) so that you can make a FULLY-informed decision.

    Because if you DO "pledge allegiance" to the Witness Organization, making sacrifices to be no part of this world, causing division in your own family, and making most of your friends based on "good association" of like-minded "Friends", and should ever decide that a single teaching coming from the "faithful and discreet slave" goes against your Bible-trained conscience? They will cut you off as dead.

    Please keep reading.

    And before you take a plunge into any immersion pool, be sure to ask these questions:

    If I voluntarily join, can I voluntarily leave?
    If I do leave voluntarily (disassociate myself) what will be the consequences?

    Welcome to this board, Katherine.
    Where JWs and ex-JWs are not afraid to speak up and tell you what they are really thinking.
    Something they cannot do freely and remain in what is supposed to be "the Truth."

    outnfree

  • God_knows
    God_knows

    Everyone here seems to be saying that it does not matter whether Jesus died on a cross or a stake, but what matters is that He died;
    That just is not true, I am afraid, for you cannot change even one word of scripture without the permission of the king. The Lord commands us not to add to or take away from scripture in any way.

    I forgot to mention one thing in my last post.

    In Exodus 12:7 Moses commands the people to put lamb's blood on the top and sides of their doorways. This about that; God had a good reason for commanding this, and it is not just to mark out the houses of the Hebrews apart from the Egyptians. The blood of the LAMB on the top and sides of the door is symbolic of JESUS, His bloody head, and bleeding hands.....STRETCHED OUT TO THE SIDES as on the cross.

    So even the OT speaks of His crucifixion on the CROSS, not a stake.

    Peace, blessings and the sweetest love to all of you.

  • ianao
    ianao

    God_Knows:

    Please recite the previous verse in it's origional language please, without the meddlings of men's minds to corrupt the word of God.

    Oh, wait a minute...

    Men wrote those words long ago and ASSERTED inspiration from God...

    hmmm...........

  • God_knows
    God_knows

    If you were referring to the passage in Exodus I mentioned, I was just paraphrasing.

    All you have to do is read it for yourself to see the truth.

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    "stauros" (Gr.) = a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (spec.) a pole or cross (as in instrument of capital punishment); fig. exposure to death; i.e., self-denial; by impl. the atonement of Christ: -- cross. -- The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of Bible

    The above is why I say that neither "cross" nor "stake" is incorrect.
    It is not a case of changing "one word of Scripture" at all.

    Exodus 12:7 NWT "And they must take some of the blood and splash it upon the two doorposts and the upper part of the doorway belonging to the houses in which they will eat it."

    Katherine? Research and draw your OWN conclusions, please.

    outnfree

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