God hates mankind (page 4)

gumby

One thing I deeply recommend: simply pursue goodness as earnestly as you can.

Bebu,

The above is the ONLY way that brings true satisfaction in life for me. Goodness always works in the long haul. Most people I know are of this sort.

Gumby

shotgun

Bebu..as always your posts touched me, it may be because you were never a dub and see things differently I'm not sure.

One thing I deeply recommend: simply pursue goodness as earnestly as you can. Find humility. Because, if God is good after all, then you will have helped make space in yourself for Him to show HImself. If you truly love goodness for goodness' sake (that is, because goodness is something so beautiful to you that heaven or hell aren't the motivators), the glass will finally begin to clear. (Loving goodness is certainly easier said than done, I've found

Maybe I'm tainted by my loss of faith in almost everything since my awakening to the WT lies.

I do believe that people in general are good and caring. I started this thread not as a serious attack on God but an attack on how he is portrayed in the Bible.

Is there a God, I don't know for sure. I find it hard to imagine the wonders of the Universe and many other things without an intelligent designer.

I can't accept the same one who could be responsible for this design would let things on Earth spiral out of control as they have and at the same time guide mankind to write a document which emphasized not only his good points but also how many billions of people he has killed to settle a management issue.

Blind zebra...thanks for the comforting words but you speckled them with words about doomand gloom for the future. You have a strong faith in what you believe which seems to be based on the bible, I'm guessing you were never a JW?

I really want to start looking forward to the future for positive reasons, by positive I don't mean the destruction of billions of people.

shotgun

Gumby your post touched me as well, and I already told you before not to touch me there

Guest 77

I've met, and I'll continie to meet many twisted/ perverted people in my travels, does this give 'just' cause to lose faith and hate mankind?

Guest 77

shotgun

Guest what did you expect in the kind of bars you frequent

This thread should have been entitled a rant, or d isillusionment then a direct attack on God as many have perceived it to be.

ThiChi

""Sorry ThiChi. Please accept my apologies. Perhaps I was projecting......what I see as an unconditionally loving Source. Indeed this may not be evident in "events" of phenomenal "life experience". However, there is always more information if we look deeper."" You do make some very powerful points here...thanks!

bebu

Bebu: as much as I don't agree with your philosophy of "good" and "evil" (both seem to me as accounting for only a small part of reality, just as absolute black and white are rather rare colours in nature), I really treasure the (Q) saying you quoted relating "right/clear vision" with the "good/simple eye" (which, in Semitic languages, implies generosity, cf. Dt 15:9; Pr 22:9; 23:6; Mt 20:15; Mk 7:22) -- and also with "not judging" (Matthew 7:1ff // Luke 6:37f).

Narkissos, I don't imagine that I can divide this earth into inherently evil and good things or actions. There is a lot of noises on earth. Some of it is the sound of truth and some of it is the sound of lies. Some noises are just moos and quacks. If God made all things and called them all good, then there is a foundation of goodness to all things, I think, even the moos and quacks. And that foundation is what gives the colors in nature (for example) the quality we appreciate, its own kind of goodness (not a moral goodness). It is where there is lying that we note a severe contrast, and only here where I'm really speaking to. I think that there is a goodness in not judging what has no need of condemnation, and goodness in the simple concept of generosity.

The above is the ONLY way that brings true satisfaction in life for me. Goodness always works in the long haul. Most people I know are of this sort.

Gumby, that's good to know! Over time we understand what stuff we're really made of, and what each other is made of. Folks we thought were good-hearted shun their children. People we looked down on prove themselves our superiors thru overcoming. I wonder if it's not where we are at this moment, but the direction we are moving... and God sees that. That's one reason I don't fret as much over the apparent loss of control in the world.

I started this thread not as a serious attack on God but an attack on how he is portrayed in the Bible.

Shotgun, I know. God can take it, I think. But there will be a time when you see that all this pain squeezing on you provides a new window you couldn't have imagined you could grow in. I think times like these sharpens in us our desire for goodness like nothing else ever can. (...I have always secretly wished that I can learn all the hard lessons in life vicariously, but I haven't been let off the hook. It's not enough for me in God's view (I guess) to just let me learn things theoretically--and give those nice, pat answers in books.) It seems that pain really clarifies to us how deeply we will go after goodness; we finally start to count the cost and make the choice we only thought we were making before. Just for encouragement, here's an interesting true story. I watched this happen, myself. I was watching a judo competition between several colleges, with a small audience of about 300 in attendance. At the end of the competiton, it was decided that the 2 top competitors could compete together, even though they were so unevenly matched in size. Both of the men were from my school, and I knew them (because I was in the judo club with them): Irwin was a huge guy, hairy, and convinced he was God's gift to women. He was a guy that I avoided getting near; just watching him made me want to go wash my hands. John was a short, light-haired fellow with a very light personality, too. He was a little quiet, but a lot more friendly than Irwin. So these were the two top "judoka" to fight in a match, and John was definitely dwarfted by Irwin by 100 pounds--easily!!! So everyone thought that this competition would be pretty fast--for John to lose. But it wasn't a fast match. And the fight seemed to drag on a long time. A very long time. And finally, John moved in to try to throw Irwin (again). He took Irwin's arm over his own shoulder and moved into position to throw Irwin forward. Irwin quickly countered by lowering his center of gravity--his hips (natural response). John squatted lower to get under Irwin's center of gravity. Irwin moved lower. And so on. Pretty soon, Irwin looked like he had won the match by pinning John, because, especially from the back, that was how it appeared: it looked like they were in a wrestling move, not doing a standing throw at all. But from my seat, I could see that John still had that "throw" grip on Irwin, and was applying torque to the throw with every ounce in him. (Irwin was applying a choke hold on John, which was another good strategy for him to take.) Both their faces looked like they would soon explode. And then, Irwin straightened out his legs, a maneuver to put his weight further away from the center, to counter the torque that way and prevent being thrown. It looked like this strategy was working, because nothing seemed to happen for a very long time. Then, Irwin's feet slowly lifted off the floor. We all first gasped with surprise, and then we all really started cheering madly for John (our group had all been rooting for John anyway--no one in our group cared for Irwin!) The crowd had been cheering for John as the underdog, though half-heartedly because it had just appeared pointless in a way! But now they were really cheering him on full-force. Oh, it was exciting.... Very slowly, Irwin's straight legs moved upward, like clock hands moving backward from 5 to 3 (from where I was sitting). And then very slowly, up to 2, then 1, and then to 12. And nothing happened. Irwin was just standing on his head, while the crowd was going absolutely CRAZY with the suspense! And then--it finally happened: his legs whipped down the other side and Irwin hit the mat full on his back--a huge WHUUUUUMP. The whole place looked like the crowd at the Olympics when the Americans beat the Russians. Nothing else mattered for a long time. This event always reminds me very well that that there are times when a lot IS happening, and we just don't see it clearly from certain viewpoints; that sometimes what we hope for doesn't look likely and that God looks like He's lost control. But we just don't understand about all the torque that God put into the cross. The matcht will end up with God winning the "Ippon!" (-- the decisive winning point as they call it in judo). So, I guess I'm telling you to 'keep cheering and rooting'! The torque is applied. The legs will lift. When the fall comes, nothing else will matter because you'll be so happy. bebu Edited to try to explain the judo moves more clearly to those who aren't familiar with them, so it'll make better sense (hopefully) ...I think the throw's name was Ippon Seonagi.

bebu

Here's what that judo throw usually looks like about half-way thru--not unrecognizable, all balled-up on the floor...

The guy in blue will usually go over the shoulder off about 45 degrees, not straight ahead. But when John did this, it was a dead-ahead throw, and simply thrilling.

PS: Zebra, that's my daughter in the avatar pic. SHE'S adorable!

bebu

shotgun

Good story Bebu....

I get your point, someday I may feel that way again too. For now I feel like the mat those two guys are taking turns throwing each other on

BTW have you ever heard of the step over the back toe hold?

bebu

step over the back...??

Uh, probably that's a more general wrestling move... if it's a move at all...

I don't know anything much about regular wrestling moves or their names; I've forgotten a great deal about judo, too, unfortunately.

bebu

(....What mischief is that shotgun up to?...)

God hates mankind

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