Why Grandma Jones, I just brought this topic up again the other day?
Awake! says we can pray in Jesus' name!!!
by Leolaia 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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debator
John 16:23
In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. -
isaacaustin
Reniaa said:
John 16:23
In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.My reply:
While John 14:14 shows coming to Jesus directly is also acceptable.
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serein
it says who ever calls on jesus name will be heard not just the 144000,and only jesus is the mediator between us and god and no one else, get it there (who ever.. anyone... any person at all who calls on him. (not exept for the scraps that are left hopeing, they not good enough so they cant)
also the flipin elders and who ever else should stop looking for the faults in there followers and start looking at the faults its been teaching em all and look at the giant flaming tree in there eyes and not the splinter in others eyes
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Listener
So Debator if Jesus is only the mediator of the chosen ones then why is it acceptable for all of us to use Jesus as our mediator in prayer?
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debator
Hi serein
The mediatorship is the specific covenant dealing with the firstfruits that will be acting as kings and priests in heaven.
Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.Revelation 14:4
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
Romans 11:16
If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.It in no way stops us praying to Jehovah in Jesus's name whatever our hope whether it is earthly or heavenly.
We as witnesses do not preach that only the 144,000 can pray to Jehovah through Jesus so You are mistaken on our bible drawn beliefs there.
Jesus is priest to all mankind having sacrificed his blood for us all so we all go through him.
Hebrews 9:24-26 (New International Version)
24 For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
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isaacaustin
-bator said:
Hi serein
The mediatorship is the specific covenant dealing with the firstfruits that will be acting as kings and priests in heaven.
Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.Revelation 14:4
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
Romans 11:16
If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.My Reply: Rom 11:16 just refuted your 2 class theory Reniaa.
-bator said:
It in no way stops us praying to Jehovah in Jesus's name whatever our hope whether it is earthly or heavenly.
My reply: Fictitious 2 classes...regardless of which of the fictitious classes a JW is of, they must stay loyal to the GB.
Reniaa/Debator said:
We as witnesses do not preach that only the 144,000 can pray to Jehovah through Jesus so You are mistaken on our bible drawn beliefs there.
My reply: You are not a JW Reniaa, only a believer in their BS. Real JWs do not come to apostate sites. You are correct though that JWs do not teach that only 144,000 can pray to Jehovah.
Ren/Bator said:
Jesus is priest to all mankind having sacrificed his blood for us all so we all go through him.
Hebrews 9:24-26 (New International Version)
24 For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
My reply: Correct statement...but useless in JW theology.
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blondie
"The Bible clearly says that Jesus Christ is mankind's redeemer, so he is mankind's mediator. Therefore, our prayers should be addressed to God through, or in the name of Jesus. (1 Tim. 2:5, 6) This being the case, there is absolutely no Biblical reason why men should canonize saints or pray to them." (Awake!, July 8, 1969, p. 24)
No, this idea has been repeated. The key scripture to search by is 1 Timothy 2:5,6 and "pray". The thing to remember is that the WTS is a master at speaking out of both sides of their mouth. Are they suggesting that only the 144,000 can pray through Jesus to God?
*** w04 4/1 p. 32 Should We Call Upon Angels for Help? ***However, angels do not serve as intercessors who bring human prayers to the throne of the Most High. God has determined that prayers be addressed to him in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, who said: "No matter what you ask the Father in my name he might give it to you."—John 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:5.
*** w02 7/1 p. 8 Worship God "in Spirit" ***Is it proper to pray to Jesus’ earthly mother, Mary, or to particular "saints," asking them to intercede with God in one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: "There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus."—1 Timothy 2:5.
*** w97 2/15 p. 28 Agreement Between "God’s Temple" and Idols in Greece? ***Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to "saints" in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: "You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.’" (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." And the apostle Paul stated: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."—John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.
*** w80 6/1 p. 18 par. 11 Praying to Jehovah so as to Be Heard ***How can we gain access to the great "Hearer of prayer"? He has appointed that this be through Jesus Christ alone. There is only one Mediator between God and men, and one High Priest, Jesus Christ. (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 7:25, 26) Jesus himself put it very explicitly, saying: "No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) "Most truly I say to you, If you ask the Father for anything he will give it to you in my name. . . . Ask and you will receive, that your joy may be made full."—John 16:23, 24.
*** w75 7/1 p. 402 par. 8 Coming to the Hearer of Prayer ***To communicate readily with the heavenly Father, one must accept Christ Jesus as Lord. Peace with God can come only through the appointed way, the ransom provision by the Lord Jesus. (Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6)He is the provision for approach to God in prayer and reconciliation with him. Jesus rightly declared: "No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) He is the "helper" that plays a vital role in our having access to the Hearer of prayer. (1 John 2:1, 2) The way, therefore, to come to God is on the basis of Christ’s official services as high priest as well as the ransom he provided for mankind. Our asking in his name and coming to the Father is, therefore, in recognition of his office as God’s "Chief Agent of life." No other intermediary is necessary in addressing our prayers to God.—Acts 3:15; John 14:13, 14; Heb. 10:19-22.