by Vanderhoven7 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Something does not compute
You are my witnesses,”declares Jehovah, Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One.Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none. ISAIAH 43:10
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. JOHN 1:1
My guess is that they'll go into 'nouns' and capital G in God and lower case g for Jesus as a sort of god type person.
Just a thought. My memory of all things Jobot has faded.
When I was a witness I could reconcile that very easily as punkofnice pointed out. Your bible is wrong and should read "a god".
What I am finding is that the divinity of Jesus was invented after Jesus' execution. Please see Dr. Bart Ehram's book How Jesus Became God : the Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee. Dr. Ehram's findings are enlightening as to the issues with the Bible as well as the Christian religion.
Christianity is not about Jesus' teachings. Christianity is about the worship of Jesus.
@ Punky and Sloppy
The point is that Jehovah says there was no other god beside him or with him, nor was any formed before or after him, nor did any help him create the world
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa_44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF.
How do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile these verses with John's gospel?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. .... 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
@ truth b
"Christianity is about the worship of Jesus."
Wow! Couldn't have said it better myself.
The point is that Jehovah says there was no other god beside him or with him, nor was any formed before or after him, nor did any help him create the world
Vanderhoven7 - this is a great point. The history of the Jewish belief system does show us that there was no belief of other spiritual creatures (angels) until after the Greeks conquered them. In fact, the Gospels record that the Sadducees believed in neither angels or an afterlife. Paul used this contention of these issues between the Sadducees and the Pharisees to save himself.
In my opinion, this isn't the verse that would ever catch a JW. You would go in circles with a JW with neither side budging. I think you know that. The verse I don't believe any JW could defend nor even know is how the word "other" was added to Colossians 1:16
You don’t understand the Bible language and literary device and the meaning of the term God in Bible languages. Also when you are reading an English translation of the Bible. You are reading an interpretation of the translator. Sometimes you can’t put things into exact words of another language. And you need to factor in ( don’t forget) the rest of the Bible.
John was describing the human Jesus in his prehuman form.
In the beginning the Word (JC the first born —don’t forget he had a birth in heaven) existed. And the Word was with T H E D O C T O R, and the word was a doctor. In the Greek language, nouns can be descriptive or adjectives so there is no need for an article in front of doctor. “The Word was God” misrepresents what the scripture is saying because the verse does not say that the Word was THE GOD. It only describes the Word as having a GODlike nature. But the verse is absolutely not saying the Word and THE GOD are the same entity.
That is the best I can do. Again, don’t forget to factor in the test of the Bible
Reading both in context they seem to be saying:
Isaiah: none of the gods of the surrounding nations are real. They can’t do anything. They didn’t exist before Jehovah and they won’t exist in the future either. They will never exist and will never be able to do anything for the people who put their trust in them.
John: God’s Son (his Word) was with him in the beginning when he created the world. God created everything through his Son who is the only direct creation of the Father. God’s Son became flash when he came to earth as Jesus Christ. Jesus represented his Father perfectly by doing the things that pleased him and he declared that his Father is the only true God.
These two texts complement each other in their statements that Jehovah is the only true God and that he sent forth his only begotten Son.
On the meaning of John 1:1 see King and Messiah as Son of God: Divine, Human and Angelic Figures in Biblical and Related Literature (2008) by John J. Collins and Adela Yarbro Collins.
Vanderhoven7, context is everything. If you cherry-pick scriptures written in different languages to a different audience separated by 600 years or more, it is easy to create an apparent contradiction. But if both are read within the context they were written there is no contradiction in JW understanding.
PS I see slim beat me to it, although I would think God's Son became flesh rather than flash.
