by Vanderhoven7 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
You guys would make great Watchtower apologists.
But we know that God created the universe and man by Himself without the help of another god. Yet as He creates man, he says, "Let us make man in our image after our likeness...."
By the way, I was a Unitarian for the first half of my Christian life. But I always worshiped Jesus as did Russell whose influence I was indirectly under.
Vandy - God created the universe and man by Himself without the help of another god.
Although I am no longer a believer, I thought the WBT$ at one time suggested that Jesus DID help with creation. TBH, I can't be bothered to check sources (sauces), it seems so pointless.
Off subject a bit. I remember a Sister(tm) wondering if Satan created Wasps. (Not sure if you call them Wasps in the USA).
You guys would make great Watchtower apologists.
I was, in my day. Perhaps I should go back
@Punky
Yes, Jehovah was the Creator and the angelic creature Michael, the master builder.
Don’t have to be a JW to conclude when reading the Bible that Jesus is the Messiah, his birth was miraculous, he was a son of God or that Jesus and Almighty God are 2 separate entities or other JW beliefs. Neither Earnest or SBJ or TD are WT apologists because they interpret parts of the Bible in agreement with JW. Calling them apologists is ridiculing their objective view. I respect their impartial posts.
@wonderment,
My point about Colossians which I didn’t really make is that they added those words themselves to suit their purpose. They used to have brackets to show that they added the word other and instead now remove them as if they were always there. As far as the trinity goes, I don’t have a dog in the fight. If my Bible said the word was God at John 1:1 and then Paul said Jesus created all things, and Genesis 1:1 says God created all things in the beginning, there’s an argument to make. Throw in God said let us make man in our own image. Someone can start to build a case. I don’t think Jesus taught the Trinity, but I don’t really care what side people are on.
“You are my witnesses, declares the Lord.
You are my servant, whom I have chosen,
so that you may know me and believe in me,
so that you will understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
and after me there will not be another.”
This use to be confusing to me too. Then I realized it’s not talking about Jesus, but about the typical idols that drove people away from worshiping God. And looking at the meaning, this could be a person as well.
Isa 43:11,12
I, yes I, am the Lord,
and apart from me there is no savior.
12 I myself declared it.
I brought salvation, and I announced it.
It was not some strange god among you.
You are my witnesses, declares the Lord,
and I am God.
Interlinear – “I tell and I save and I announce and there is no in you alien one…”
“I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God.”
The Hebrew word rendered “strange” means hence to be a foreigner, profane; specifically (active participle) to commit adultery” “To turn aside, to depart, especially from God.” This is called spiritual adultery. (Ezek 16:15,20,21)
Hmm. “gods” in men, such as the governing body and the elder body they direct. The elders are the embodiment of the organization, that claims to bring salvation. Strange, indeed.
"You guys would make great Watchtower apologists." - Vanderhoven
Doesn't take being a watchtower apologist to say these things it takes reading the bible in its context.
"But we know that God created the universe and man by Himself without the help of another god. Yet as He creates man, he says, "Let us make man in our image after our likeness...."
- without the help of a foreign God yes.. But The word is the agent whom God created the world through - The statements in Isaiah SHOULD be taken as comparisons between Jehovah and False Gods worshipped by Israel.. NOT as hyper literal statements as trinitarians would like to have you take them
Interesting that the term "Word" is used to point to a means of creation, The "Word" also referring the JC in his pre-earthen life. Word involving acoustics in "speaking" structures into existence. Add to that, that
"wisdom" is involved in the creative process too, as a nom de guerre for JC again.
No wonder it is stupendous work of art, the universe.
My memory of all things Jobot has faded
It gets that way, eh!
Paul used this contention of these issues between the Sadducees and the Pharisees to save himself
Huh! Can you elaborate…..Pls
What I am finding is that the divinity of Jesus was invented after Jesus' execution
No, sorry to disappoint but Jesus himself confirmed it.
In my opinion, this isn't the verse that would ever catch a JW. You would go in circles with a JW with neither side budging
Oh yes, remember when we had the “Make Sure of All Things” and Reasoning book in our toolkit?
