by Tashawaa 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Years ago I remember hype over the same thing. There was supposed things in the "works" at the U.N. to bring an end to religion. I would say that was 15 or so years ago. Just because some minor group wants an end to religion, doesn't mean its going to happen. Don't still be fooled by the Watchtower's view on things.
I like to preasent a resolution to ban the Watchtower. What are my chances of that?
The simple fact that trying to impose a ban on religion is unconstitutional is covincing enough that it ain't gonna happen. Out of all the organisation on this earth I think the UN would be the last to even suggest such a stupid idea.
If you really beleive that this is a plan the UN is looking at try visiting their official website at http://www.un.org/ and run a search on "ban on religion" .. read the different topics that come up and you will soon be convinced that the un is trying to make it so that people can have their freedoms in everything, even religion ... violence is trying to be stamped out .. not freedom.
monk3y
The Harlot of Revelation is Rome. 1Thess 4 is not a prophecy at all, it was a post Pauline attempt to explain the delay of the end of the world. The author (not Paul) was introducing the idea that they ought not suppose that the end would be proceeded by hardship. Rather he wanted to instill hyper-readiness in the group. ("the end is any day even if the world right now looks to be improving")
Like any illusion, once the mind has been prompted to "see" something it is hard to dismiss it. These passges have been used by fundementalists and adventists for decades to create a similar hyper-readiness and create an archenemy (UN) to focus upon.
Like any illusion, once the mind has been prompted to "see" something it is hard to dismiss it. These passges have been used by fundementalists and adventists for decades to create a similar hyper-readiness and create an archenemy (UN) to focus upon.
Interesting theory, IF the Bible only gave signs and prophecies related to events to the end of the world. But wisely and ingeniously, it combines prophecy with CHRONOLOGY. The chronology eliminates wild speculations along the timeline for various fulfillments which are inevitable since subjective observation of many events will likely fit some descriptions in scripture. Therefore, chronology is provided to limit loose application beyond a certain specific timeframe.
In that regard the events must be matched to the Biblical chronology timeline and in this case, the prophecy of Daniel which is the context for the "last days" is assigned to a period by the "7 times prophecy" among others to a period of 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem to the second coming. Thus the disciples in Jesus' day were NOT expecting the end any time. This is the error of many casual Bible readers who don't pay attention to ALL the details.
In support of the "immediacy" of the return not being expected during that generation of Jesus is the fact that Paul, John and others were expected "not to die" until the Lord arrived but others were. Case in point Jesus told Peter who he would die in his old age which prompted Peter to ask Jesus "what about John?" Jesus told him if it was his choice that John not die (along with other chosen not to die until he came--that's right live through the ages of 1900 years until he returned to protect the 12 tribes of Israel and likely keep the Bible and other events on track and monitored) he told him it was none of his concern. Paul puts himself in this "SURVIVE UNTIL THE LORD COMES" group as well at 1 Thessalonians 4:15. Not to introduce a doctrine hard for most to believe, but just to make the point that if John and Paul were expecting to outlive many others who would have to be resurrected they were not in mind that the Lord was coming for his return anytime too soon, even if they spoke figuratively that it was to be "soon" or "coming quickly."
Another reference as far as the Jews were concerned that established that they knew this would not come soon was Luke's reference to the "appointed times of the nations" who would trample Jerusalem for an appointed time before they returned. Jesus' prophetic reference to the restoration of the Jews to Palestine, however, represented by the budding of the fig tree was staged BEFORE the second coming. This relates to the "END" of the gentile times connected to the end of 1290 days followed by 45 days to await for the Messiah: Daniel 12 "Happy is he who keeps in expectation of the 1335 days!" This is considered a reference to the second coming and thus occurs AFTER the Jews return to Palestine. That didn't happen until 1947. But Jerusalem wasn't even destroyed until c. 70-73 CE, showing the Jews going into exile and the "appointed times of the nations" continuing from that point.
Bottom line, considering the chronology which specifically dates the year of the return 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem (whether you date that in 607, 587 or 529BCE), all other prophecies, including that of Babylong the Great would have to occur post 1914 generation.
Thus the argument that this was created to make up for disappointed fulfllments is not academically correct and thus erroneous and therefore ignored by those who are more informed Biblically.
You have to get what the Bible actually says CORRECT first, and then criticize if you wish. Basing an argument upon false interpretation of the Bible means nothing, obviously.
Thanks for the commentary.
JC
The fact that the UN seems to be supportive of religious freedoms means that it will be more of a shock and surprise when religion falls "overnight". I am sure this will happen, you can see it developing.
petespal2002,
I see the situation developing where WT is going to fall.
Information available on the internet about them is what is going to do it.
When that happens it won't be a shock or a surprise to me.
I'm on board with petespal here. I certainly think that these religions that have a convert or die policy need to be done away with for starters . In order for the US or UN to achieve it's goals of modernizing the world and bringing peace and security I think they have to look at the effects that religious intolerance and making laws based on religious superstition has in these underdeveloped nation and those that control the oil reserves , I mean jeeze these people will fight to the death and destruction of an entire planet over who is better buddah or mohammed .
Sounds a really sensible proposal!! Let's petition our Reps to have it law by the end of the year!!!
Max
blindzebra --- The WTBTS claims that the fall of babylon in the first instance was in connection with the similar circumstance in ancient babylon when the Israelites were commanded to go back and rebuild jerusalem to restore pure worship . Babylon still existed but under the rule of cyrus the great even tho they were defeated by the medo persian forces. There was no huge battle over the city so no need to destroy it at the time . The later scripture of the complete destruction of babylon is yet to happen as the WTBTS states that the wild beast in revelation will destroy her with the thought that it is Gods will .
blindzebra -- I just looked at your profile so wasn't aware that you were a dub and was familiar with the WTBTS dogma about babylon . You can go right ahead and start a thread about anything you want . There are many different views about it on the board and I have read many of them . I'm always interested in topics of that sort myself .
