In the long run, goodness can be as real as we care to live it.
And if we live 'as though' God were as real as we once believed--how can we go wrong?
Let us think about this...
What would happen if we were given a large amount of cash and we spent it on gifts for our loved ones but-- a knock at the door and the police are here!
That cash was counterfeit and those gifts must be confiscated...what then?
Good intentions are only that--intentions-- if there is no "there" there.
When we were each others' Brothers and Sisters our love was real but the currency was counterfeit. Yes, Jehovah's check bounced.
Our gifts to each other were 'real' but so easily confiscated as, one by one, we fell away seeing the nothingness upon which our world was founded. Did our checks bounce too?
Disheartened? Yes! Who can love without heart?
Let's go deeper. Let's get crazy...
Conversely, in a case of Murder, there are degrees of guilt--so, why not in love?
Jehovah's 'love' motivated us to love.
Then, like a hammer-shattered plaster statue, He was gone.
Our lives, embodied in those pieces littering the floor of daily life, fell apart.
No ground beneath our feet, we plummeted toward no gravity--toward nothing--screaming "FREEDOM"all the way to--where?
Here. Now. Today.
All those prayers--to whom did we pray? Dare I ask: Does it really matter?
In the long run, goodness can be as real as we care to live it.
And if we live 'as though' God were as real as we once believed--how can we go wrong?
You see--NOW WE KNOW what isn't true...so...
we are truly free to love based on freedom to do so without false sentiment fostered in deceit.
We can live as though all those things we loved are true.
What things?
First, we are all each others' Brothers and Sisters. Is it possible?
Today, we look out on our planet, in our world and see discord, anger, divisions and we no longer have that PARADISE fallback, get-out-of-jail-free card Jehovah gave us. We can't hide behind Armageddon. We're no longer in that club with the slogan above the door: "The Only True Religion."
Can we claim Brotherhood with those with political beliefs--as false as our religion before our fall from 'grace'? Are we too indoctrinated and doctrinaire? Still?
Have we traded false religion for another captivity: ideology?
Are we recidivists, addicts, doomed perforce to circle the drain of "I'm right--you're wrong"?
I ask one last time the question only you can answer for yourself:
In the long run, goodness can be as real as we care to live it.
And if we live 'as though' God were as real as we once believed--how can we go wrong?
Before you answer that--one more question: What's the alternative?
Live 'as though' God is true and goodness is real? Why? Why not?
by TerryWalstrom 11 Replies latest jw friends
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TerryWalstrom
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I believe in overlapping
And if we live 'as though' God were as real as we once believed--how can we go wrong?
Before you answer that--one more question: What's the alternative?The alternative would be to live as though 'YOU are real,' but with the realization that there is no safety net to catch us.
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TerryWalstrom
We do have to take care of ourselves. Too young I rushed out willy nilly to 'save the world' for our Watchtower overlords and yet there was nobody there to save me.
So much of 'spiritual help' is noise and ideology; aren't we wasting our reservoir of interior goodness on THAT instead of more practical concern for the physical welfare and well-being?
I would say, "yes." -
truth_b_known
If "goodness" is real then "evil" must also be real. What is evil?
"What is evil?" was the question a college professor of philosophy asked his students day one of class. The professor started with the student sitting in the front row of the lecture hall.
"War," she answered.
"Wrong" replied the professor.
The professor asked the second student, "What is evil?"
"Violence," the second student answered.
"Wrong," replied the professor.
The professor continued asking the same question of each student. He went student by student, row by row, asking them all the same question and each answer given by students was met with the same reply - "Wrong!" That was until he got about 25 students into the process and he called on my buddy.
"What is evil?" asked the professor of my friend.
My friend knew that this question was coming and truly racked his brain coming up with what he thought was a legitimate answer. Then he replied.
"Cancer."
The professor paused and pondered on his his answer for several uncomfortable seconds.
"Yes," replied the professor who then promptly returned to the lectern and began his first lecture to the class.
I share this story to share an opinion - concepts of "good" and "evil" are man-made and subjective. Something that is classified as "good" can later be re-branded to "evil" over a period of time and vice versa. That is not to say there are not things that are "good" and will always be seen that way or that some things are not truly "evil'.
So what is the alternative?
One universal truth is that for every action there is a reaction. All actions have consequences. The word "consequences" has been given a negative connotation. In reality consequences can be positive or more accurate, consequences are just the results of what we do or fail to do.
So the alternative is to ask ourselves this question - "What can I live with?"
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I believe in overlapping
We do have to take care of ourselves. Too young I rushed out willy nilly to 'save the world' for our Watchtower overlords and yet there was nobody there to save me.
So much of 'spiritual help' is noise and ideology; aren't we wasting our reservoir of interior goodness on THAT instead of more practical concern for the physical welfare and well-being?The problem is that many people don’t have much of choice. Sometimes you are born into the wrong family. If you are born into the Watchtower religion, you are “encouraged” to get baptized at a young age and coax into knocking on doors and saving strangers from eternal death. How many of us knocked on a door and didn’t realize and will never know--- there was a serial killer on the other side?
Worse, sometimes you are born into the wrong family and in the wrong country.
http://time.com/5442851/pakistan-blasphemy-asia-bibi-protest/?utm_source=reddit.com
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Finkelstein
Goodness, empathy and compassion for others can come from people without imposed fear by an imagined deity drawn out of ancient mythology.
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TerryWalstrom
The antidote to false religion?
Many of us abandon the search altogether after a few years deep research into every jot and tiddle.
Forty thousand denominations in Christianity and no place to hang our hat? Yeah, fraid so. All those tentacles lead to just one damn octopus.
But I'm haunted by the idea of "acting as though"life has 'meaning'--how does that differ from life actually having meaning?
Maybe no difference at all in such distinctions-- as long as we're not spending more counterfeit cash.
When you do good for somebody the good is done.
Giving a bum a meal may be naive or maybe not--but feeding a hungry person is never wrong.
See the difference? I hope I do. A distinction without a difference is possible.
When we knocked on doors, passed out books and magazines, held 'Bible studies' we were writing bad checks and gifting counterfeit cash--mind you--will all the best intentions.
Don't we feel used? You bet!
In politics, the term is "useful idiot."
Should we aspire to go from being a useful idiot to becoming a reactionary "useless" one?
There is evil in false goodness--but--is there goodness in fake evil?
Oh my aching head! -
ThinkerBelle
The opening question brought to mind Euthyphro's dilemma - check it out.
My conclusion is that you don't need a god in order to be good or do good things.
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TerryWalstrom
Yes, I say it like this:
"Do we love something because it is 'good' or is it only seen as 'good' because we love it?"
What we personally value can be a complicated set of internal calibrations.
The easy-to-understand Cause and Effect process goes off the rails at any point.
We may or may not be aware it happened.
The result can be called a Fetish. (Do you like to be spanked?)
Good and Bad in the context of Emotions is awkwardly complex.
Generally, our Values trigger (automatically) our Emotions.
(If we are afraid of snakes, we automatically jump and scream when we see a snake).
Now here it gets complicated! If we only THINK the garden hose is a snake--we still involuntarily jump and scream.
Our misconception / misperception of garden hose = snake may be a silly error but don't let us miss the important point: IT IS A DEEP SURVIVAL MECHANISM at work: that jump and scream.
Boo/Hiss and Yay/Hooray aren't as easy as all that to pin down.
Our sense of GOOD and BAD is rooted in our perception and training and peer support.
Some is voluntary and much is not.
If we live as though God were real...in a strong sense...we jump as though the garden hose were a snake. SAME PROCESS ? Not exactly.Why? Because we didn't happen upon God coiled next to our back door. Instead, we are pretending that jumping and screaming are actually good for us.
Is that ridiculous? Sure. -
waton
I like the "confederate" money illustration. In my hometown 2 different currencies existed side by side. In the beginning the solution was to barter in goods. I cigarette equalled 10 of 2 dfferent marks.
You lived better having the goods, cigarettes or sugar or butter.so: to sustain Terry's metaphor:
The goods, the working, the giving, the doing of good are the reality, the facts, the currency does not matter. The denomination can loose its value, wt doctrines certainly have proven worthless. The possible incidental good, if any, it was a catalyst to, is there. I hope you made the best of it, as your "currency" has now changed.
I hope you are dealing in Gold, or real estate now.
I heard this recently again :" God is the rewarder of those seeking him" What has wt to do with that personal quest, exactly?
May be wt land is kind of a Monopoly game, just entertainment, no real good is done, but people join it for the fun of it not the funny money?