Jehovahs Witnesses and the Name , HOW Important. ? (page 4)

Finkelstein

Maybe the Borg will change its official tittle since its been witnessing nothing but bullshit for over 140 years.

We have New Light .

Don't hold your breath on a name change though.

A huge part of being a "witness" is the written testimony (romans 3:2)...(revelation 12:11)...both the hebrew witnesses and the christian (Jesus said, "you will be My witnesses") witnesses are "witnesses of Jehovah" because the continuing oracle or revelation of Christ isn't seperate but subsequent to the hebrew witness.

TheWonderofYou

The notion of God is a product of the culture of the people and has developed.

Each generation made a new decision about what God meant for it or the myths meant for it.

For Israel God meant something else than for Abraham, for post exil something else than pre-exil.

Many Ideas changed, e.g. already 40 years before the exil jews decided not to pronounce the NAME any longer. Already forty years before the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem an the exil the Distinguhed Name was not anly longer pronounced outside the temple.

This was the time when the honourable high priest simeon the righteous died. Since then the priests ceased to pronounce the name. From this time onward the Yhwh simply was called "the Name" or Shem ha-Meyuḥad ("the Extraordinary Name"; Sifre, Num. 143); as Shem ha-Meforash ("the Distinguished Name"; Yoma vi. 2); as Shem ben Arba' Otiyyot ("the Tetragrammaton" or "the Quadriliteral Name"; Ḳid. 71a); and as Yod He Waw He (spelling the letters of Yhwh).

The pronunciation of the written Name was used only by the priests in the Temple when blessing the people (Num. vi. 22-27); outside the Temple they used the title "Adonai" (Soṭah vii. 6; p. 38a). The high priest mentioned the Name on Yom Kippur ten times (Tosef., Yoma, ii.; 39b)

From that time the pronunciation of the Name was prohibited. "Whoever pronounces the Name forfeits his portion in the future world" (Sanh. xi. 1). Hananiah ben Ṭeradion was punished for teaching his disciples the pronunciation of the Name ('Ab. Zarah 17b).

As long as the Jewish courts exercised criminal jurisdiction, the death penalty was inflicted only upon the blasphemer who used the Ineffable Name (the Tetragrammaton)]; but the blasphemer of God's attributes was subjected to corporal punishment (Sanh. 56a).

____

Jesus respected this. He and the Apostels and the first christian did not pronounce the NAME, but they replaced it by Adonai or kyrios in greek. Thus they were not known as "jehovahs witnesses" at that time but as "witnesses of jesus". Why should today we call christians "jehovash witnesses" then.? But of course the honoured the unpronounced NAME by his deeds.

Dont forget that jesus was never accused by anyone of his enemies to have pronounced the divine name instead they rather accused him to do things that only God could do (forgive sins) or that he made himself similar to god. The jewish court did not sentence Jesus to death because he pronounced the Tetraggrammaton but because he agreed to be the Son of Man sittin at the right hand of the Mighty One [Eloah]“!

Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”
They all condemned him as worthy of death. Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2014%3A53-65

Finkelstein

So why do J.W.`s insist on the name ? Jehovah ? ? stubbornness / arrogance and a failure to admit we were wrong.

I think it was because the name Jehovah sounded better than Yahweh Witnesses, the early leaders of this organization were not deeply trained bible theologians that's for sure also the leaders then used the King James version of the bible which uses Jehovah .

There is a bit of irony though in that this self proclaimed true bible interpreters self identify themselves with a tainted bastardized translation of YAHWEH.

Aren't they really Christan Witnesses since they are supposedly preaching the Gospel of Christ.

TheWonderofYou

That the Tetragrammaton was known by jesus and christians is clear but it was not pronounced and replaced by „Adonai“ hebrew and „kyrios“.

Look what the gospel writers did, they replace even "God" often with "heaven", "kingdom of heaven" instead of "kingdom of God".

It was a sign of respect of God not to use the title and the name, like jews do today.

That in some greek exemplars of the Olt Testament the Tetragramm was not transcribed as Kyrios does not mean that kyrios was false or that christians generally liked to pronounce the NAME .

Christian were not called „the people that pronounce the name“. That were not know as people who made blasphemy and were stoned to death in a row after pronouncing the name, ...because they did not do it.

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But what did Jesus mean in his high priestly prayer?

I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, andI in them.” John 17,26
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+17&version=ESV
To make known Gods name meant simple to honour it, to put it on the first place in life. "Knowledge" has in hebrew the meaning of "loving" someone not merely lexical knowledge.
Jesus dit not need to pronounce the Tetragrammaton to make Gods name known.
The name of God was for Jews a sign of Gods presence. Jesus too was a sign of Gods presence called Immanuel [God is with us] by the church.
The revelation of the Name to Moses out of the firy thornbush was a sign of love and mercy towards Israel. "Making known Gods name" meant for Israel the beginning of a covenant of mercy.
When Jesus again "made known Gods name" to his people
- he gives a clear sign that he is willing to make a new beginning
- that it is time to repant, time for the kingdom, time for the forgiveness
- that he is here and present for gods people
- Jesus reveals the name JHWH with a new facet, that it doesnt merely mean
"Hey, I AM WHO I AM" but even more now in our time
"Hey, I AM here with you where you are, I love you",
"Hey, "I am with you in Jesus your brother who represents me in fullness"
" Hey, I am here to help you, to reconcile you, to save you, to redeem you from death"
"Hey if this one sacrifices for you his life, than he does what I would do for you, because I love you
to the utmost, when I am who I am and therefore being with you in the "

That is what the merciful revelation of "JHWH" means for Israel and Christians, the voice out of a thornbush.....
So Jesus was lately the best and perfect pronounciation of JHWH in the first century even if the correct pronounciation of the old Tetragrammaton was never again used, reminded and became forgotten. But the message of love remained.
That was a story as an example of change of notions about God.

myelaine

dear Finkelstein...

you said, "Aren't they really Christan Witnesses since they are supposedly preaching the Gospel of Christ."...

are they?...2 timothy 1:8-10

love michelle

TheWonderofYou

When the Highpriest who was the only one allowed to pronounce the name in the tempel sanctum of jersualem once in a year on the day of atonement since 40 years before exil, if he was worthy and did it , then this act was understood a sign of great mercy of God towards the people, as sign of atonement and forgiveness.

So likewise the thought of the text in John could include that Jesus as highpriest overtook the function as highpriest for his people of israel to pronounce mercy like at day of atonement.

Indeed forgiveness was the main gospel of Jesus.

The "makeing known of your name" thus also means makeing known gods forgiveness and mercy.
Preaching the name thus means preaching forgivness and mercy.

TheWonderofYou

Finkelstein

"Aren't they really Christan Witnesses since they are supposedly preaching the Gospel of Christ."..

Jesus attitude would be:
"Who is not against me is for me, Even if they would cast out demons in my name, let them do their thing, do not hinder them,do not prevent them".

Are we tolerant enough to accept other christian denominations who have not the "TRUTH"? It is not easy but the only sense of christianity is love. Lets begin today and lets wait for the coming miracles

38 John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40 For he who is not against us is [a]for us. 41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink[b]because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.

Finkelstein

Since the Hebrews perceived the name of god so sacred not to be spoken about randomly, it kind of makes the WTS publishing house a bit disrespectful toward gods name, be it the right pronunciation or not.

Ironically Jehovah is plastered on every Kingdom Hall they have.

myelaine

dear TheWonderofYou...

thank you for your effort in shedding more light on the name of God.

We do have to have patience with people who don't know the truth but I have to question how patience and "letting them be" can be balanced with the knowledge that the JW's aren't actually doing anything in the name of Jesus...the toto of their doctrines are in fact hindering knowledge of Jesus. Jesus, His forgiveness, mercy and ALL that He gives to man is taught to a JW as benefitting ONLY the elect 144,000. That teaching prohibits them from preaching the gospel of Christ. A study learns about the gospel...kinda...with the proviso that it isn't for them per se. Their dogma negates anything they might teach about the gospel. They are neither with Jesus or for Him, so to speak.

love michelle

Jehovahs Witnesses and the Name , HOW Important. ?

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