Re:Did /Do Elders enjoy power/control

by ladonna 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  ladonna

  When I think back to being in the WTBTS I can vividly remember the elders and their weilding of power.

  As an adult, and in hindsight, I can now look back in total distaste and disgust at the power and control these men exercised over our lives with 'apparent' enjoyment.

  I would like any former or current elders to explain the actual feelings you had when exercising this control.

  Was it exhilirating? Or was it painful?

  I would also like responses from non elders as to how you actually felt on the other end of this control situation.

  La Donna Ana
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  BugEye

  Hi Ana

  I think the majority of men in that position enjoy it at least to some degree. It seems to be a bit of a testoserone thing. Having said that, there are probably as many different feelings that they have as there are elders.

  Where it really seems to get out of hand is at judicial commities. Reports from those involved indicate that some of them have feelings ranging from sadness to despotism to titilation.

  One of the worst things about this is that these men have no training whatsoever as to the way people think. They are set up as judges over people with a pathetic ambiguous book as their guide. As a whole they seem unable to comprehend the fears and guilts and doubts of those that come before them and are often oblivious to it all.

  But then again, such is the history of mankind, so there really is nothing new going on there.

  BugEye
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  LadyBug

  This is a topic I am interested in to. I have often wondered the same thing.

  I've always felt that elders enjoy the "power" they have over others. They are in "control" of so many lives and if people don't toe the line they elders can pretty much do what they want to them. When people have power over others they tend to abuse it.

  There's many a time I felt like giving them a piece of my mind but the "fear" of what they could do to me or my family always held me back.

  BEW
  Its great to be free.
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  OrangeBlossom

  "Where it really seems to get out of hand is at judicial commities. Reports from those involved indicate that some of them have feelings ranging from sadness to despotism to titilation."

  I remember a few years back, a family member committed adultery and the elders found out about it. Well, right before all of this happened a situation involving this same family member and the PO developed to where they got into a heated argument at the KH. The PO was a real horse's ass and remains that way to this day. This PO dislikes our entire family and does not try to hide this fact.

  Anyway, when she had her preliminary meeting with the elders to set up a judicial committee, she specifically asked that this PO NOT be on her committee due to the heated outburst they had had with one another just a few days earlier (which several overheard, including the CO's wife)

  When she walked into the kangaroo court, guess who assigned himself to be on her committee? You got it, the jack-ass himself. She was so pissed she almost walked out. But at that time, she wanted to be df'd so went through with it. It took her at least 2 years to get reinstated and I'm sure he didn't want to concede to reinstate her, but she had been to all the meetings, marked WT's, etc.

  Just a classic case of elders wielding their power. This is just one of many instances that I could relate, but I will keep them to myself for now.
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  ladonna

  Hi Bug and BugEW,

  Thankyou both for your input. Bug, I think you are right about some elders feeling different than others, but from a womans perspective BugEW, you have described it as "fear"

  This is probably how we as females perceived the elders.....and how we were treated. Fear was a major component of how "we" reacted towards the elders.

  BEW....what do you think of the subjection issue...you know, "women be in subjection to your husbands"?

  Bug....how do you view that in relation to yourself as a man?

  Anyone else care to answer?????

  I believe that any good relationship has two partners that will "naturally" listen to each other. Therefore, there is no need to put either partner in control of the other.

  Thanks guys for replying,
  Ana :)
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  JT

  BUG

  One of the worst things about this is that these men have no training whatsoever as to the way people think. They are set up as judges over people with a pathetic ambiguous book as their guide. As a whole they seem unable to comprehend the fears and guilts and doubts of those that come before them and are often oblivious to it all

  ######

  FOR SOME i know they literally felt that they were like MOses and it really ain't their fault- when someone constantly tells you that you are so and so and then put in place a system where everyone around you treats you as such- BOW BEFORE THE ELDERS, ETC MINDSET THAT MOST JW HAVE

  then it becomes easy to see how if the person already has a problem in that area and now all of a sudden he has been told that GOD PUT HIM IN CHARGE

  you have a recipe for problems- the lack of training is truly sad

  case in point

  i'm black but i realize certain things- i saw to uneducated black elders try to settle a case with 2 white bro who were biz men - it involved contracts with all the legal jargon and here you had AMOS AND ANDY tying to play Perry Mason

  consider this - i think of myself as a pretty sharp dude ,but being the sec in my hall each jan we did the BLOOD "THANG"

  AND TO BE honest i had no idea in hell what albuim and all that trash is and when sister old would ask i would try my verybest
  but my best was not good enough when it involved folks lives

  i state that to make a point- Africa- you got an elder body with a top education of 4th grade and how in the hell are they going to be able to explain the medical terms that are found on those forms to some sister graduated from the 2nd grade.
  so you have all these untrain pilots sitting up in the cotpit annoucing we are about to take off for Europe fasten your seatbelts

  james
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  ladonna

  Hi Orange,

  You are SO right in all you have said. I too could count many stories where I had witnessed elders discussing "cases" like they were high court judges.

  I understand fully the titillation aspect....I was on the end of that, but that is another matter.

  Elders and those in "rank", as you say, do NOT hide the fact of not liking a family....in fact they seemed to enjoy their active showing of dislike....very sad.

  I really think that part of me wishes to know what kind of personality makeup it takes to make an elder in the first place.

  I have met some really great ex-elders....and some not so great ex-elders, so I guess it is like the rest of the world; a mixed bag.

  I hope your family are not too distressed by this PO Orange.

  Take Care,
  Ana

  ps....any elders out there that care to comment?
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  Tina

  Hi Ana!
  Excellent topic!
  I remember being troubled by the fact that here were a group of men,untrained in any aspect of mental health,making life shattering decisions for the r/f.

  In retrospect this is what I observed.

  I wasn't fearful for myself as much as for the others.
  I did my best to avoid having contact with any of them,even tho it happened a few times.

  What I saw was power and control issues that were fed by wts ideology. Ofentimes men who had no sense of power in their secular lives makin up for it in the cong. And especially with women.
  They used shame and guilt techniques to keep the women feeling unworthy and unequal. I observed the reinforcing of patriarchal values, keeping women dependent and powerless.What brilliant and talented sisters there were. All their abilites wasted to keep the totalitarian social norm of the cong.

  I saw men with absolutely no idea of childrens cognitive and emotional developmental stages,emotionally brutalizing them.
  And I saw them enjoying this power waaaaay too much.

  What I saw was a group of men who were hazardous to your health. Physically,emotionally psychologically and spiritually. Thats' why I didnt last too long after baptism.

  I'd go out into the world. Be appreciated for competency and abilities. Then go to a meeting and disassociate that real person into the subjugated persona I was told I had to be.......a real sick dichotomy. Frustrating as all hell too lol.
  Just a few thoughts hope I didnt ramble.
  Warm regards,Tina
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  Seeker

  I enjoyed being an elder because it was the natural path for a brother to take, and thus I felt I was moving along the way I should have been. As far as power over others, I basically never used it. Never wanted it. It wasn't a power thing for me, but a way to assist others. Yeah, yeah, I know. Seriously.

  For instance, did I take the lead in hall cleaning? Yes, I had the little checklist. But did I also assign myself to clean the bathrooms at times? Yes.

  I guess the one aspect of control I did like is the fact that I could organize things the way I thought they should be organized. Since I am an organized person, it made it easy to ensure things got done. When I was dependent on someone else, who wasn't organized, it was frustrating to sit there and watch things go to pieces.

  Judicial cases? Haaaaated them. Tried to avoid being on them. Tried to minimize the questioning when I was on them. Tried to be kind to them before, during, and after. Just hated the whole process. Hell, I hated even hearing about problems. Would rather have not known.

  Needless to say, this attitude seem to bring problems out of the woodwork in my direction! Everyone wanted to approach me, so I guess I should have been an SOB instead...

  Was my attitude toward power typical? Not if you read this board. But in the congregations I was in I can say Yes and No. I was in some congregations where there were real powermongers. Usually the short ones...or the ones married to the wife of Macbeth.

  In contrast, in other congregations I was surrounded by elders who wanted to help the friends, and didn't thrust themselves into positions of prominence. It's good to remember here that we tend to talk about the problem cases and ignore the good folks. In fact, there were many good elders who did things right and really were a shelter from the storm. Doesn't make the organization they are in right, it just means they managed to buck the system enough to stand out as good men.
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  ozziepost

  G'day Seeker,

  I appreciated your comments, especially:

  in other congregations I was surrounded by elders who wanted to help the friends, and didn't thrust themselves into positions of prominence. It's good to remember here that we tend to talk about the problem cases and ignore the good folks. In fact, there were many good elders who did things right and really were a shelter from the storm. Doesn't make the organization they are in right, it just means they managed to buck the system enough to stand out as good men.

  This helps us keep things in balance. Thanks.

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  Freedom is not having to wear a tie.