Grudge..your not alone.
I live it from the moment I wake up until the last conscious thought passes through my head at night.
I'll send you a PM.
P.S...Do not have children unless you are both on the same page.
My silent ongoing fight against the org.
by The Grudge 45 Replies latest jw experiences
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OICU8it2
Welcome. She may one day change. Hang on to her. With so much JW influence it may take time. Someone was very patient with me when I still couldn't see outside the organisation. Their very program of indoctrination and even making you feel guilty because you have serious questions in you mind is difficult to fight. There are those who let things slide and just don't think of all the problems with their teaching. I could not be that way. My wife just waited and introduced me to the internet. When I got here it was finished for good. We are very happy and I'm glad she loved me enough to wait. We've been married two and a half years and I'm never goin' back. Please stick around here. Best to ya, Carlton
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ESTEE
(((((The Grudge)))))
Welcome to the forum!
This event however and the way it was handled by the JC, other elders, the effects it had on my life, my marriage, and the way my so called friends treated us, was that ?breaking point?. The point of no return where I began to question everything around me, most importantly the Jehovah?s Witness organization. I believe I am now a stronger person because of the things I went through. Not a stronger JW, but a stronger human being.
This is what happens to most of us, I suspect. We go through a spiritual crisis and we realize that we are on our own because the elders and r&f simply do not support us like we thought they would. It's like we find out the stuff they and we are really made of are very different between them and us. Our eyes are opened. Once this enlightenment occurs there is no going back for us. We know too much to ever be a dub again, I guess.
I guess one of the hardest things to deal with is that I get so moved by the things and experiences I here on this site and just stuff that I randomly think about concerning the organization, that I just feel like I should be able to talk to her about it. Guess what? I can?t. Whenever I bring out something about my disagreement with the society she takes offence.
Part of the brainwash of the jw members, Grudgemeister ... It is the nature of the beast. That stuff is brainwashed into the members sooooo deeply that they actually become core beliefs. Not even biblical, just organizational ... yet they can't discern between the two. I am sorry you are going through this.
This jw pressure for doubters to conform is tantamount to emotional blackmail. "If you want to be a family again, then give in to my way (the borg) kind of thinking." And we can't, because we see through the cracks to what is on the other side. We see through the facade. We know the dubisms are a thin veneer.
I just don?t know if its ever going to come to a point were this doesn?t affect our relationship anymore.One comment she said to me in a heated argument we had a few weeks ago was that she didn?t think she wanted to have children because she was afraid they?d be "mixed up." ... All I could think of (although I didn?t say it) was that they would only be "mixed up" if she remained an active JW.
The fact that your wife says she fears the kids would be "mixed up" is a good sign, I figure. It may mean she is feeling mixed up. Maybe some of what you have been saying to her about your own doubts is having an effect on her. Remember that your love for her is not one way. She loves you, too, Grudge. Hold on to this thought. Try to stay calm and peaceful with her. Do not let arguements erupt if at all possible. Keep those loving feelings alive. You never know what might happen. She still might surprise you. If there is not a big wall up of defense, she might feel safe enough to start confiding her own doubts to you. Then you two would have commonality again and really cover some healthy ground!
As for having kids, it is probably a good idea to put off having kids for now, because that would change your relationship further. And yes, they would indeed be adversely affected by the jw mindset. Young impressionable minds would be damaged and spiritually abused badly, as any children who are born and raised into dub-dumb...
cruzanheart wrote:
He was very patient with me and waited until I saw the same things he did and left on my own terms. He told me that he didn't want to try to sway me because he wanted it to be my decision to leave. Alright, so I'm a little slow!
This is a lovely expression and a woman's point of view of a similar situation. Respect is important to maintain at this critical time in a marriage ... indeed. Cruzanheart felt safe to confide her doubts to Big Tex, it seems ... She felt respected and validated apparently. This is very important for a woman. And she did figure things out. No apologies necessary, Cruzanheart. Dubisms are ingrained very deeply over a very long period of time, sometimes even a lifetime of conditioning ... It takes a long time to see through the cracks to the real world. Bless your honesty and candor here ...
link said:
When she brings up religious issues I just nod and say "yes" and "Mmmm", "that?s right" etc even if she is talking the most absolute rubbish ? as happens from time to time.
This makes a lot of sense ... and would indeed help to diffuse the tension and division in your home right now. Bide your time, Grudge... Try and disconnect yourself from dub conversations. Don't let yourself take them personally. Then you won't be tempted to jump in and say, "You're all crazy!"
Sorry, if I?m rambling. I just need to get this out. If any are reading this. Thanks! Any comments, suggestions, or experiences are welcomed and appreciated.
Vent as much as you need to. I say, it is safer to vent with us than with your wife. Let her calm down enough to feel safe to approach you with her doubts. She probably has some. She just needs to feel safe to approach you with them. I hope this helps. Right now she seems to think that any differing view to the wts is automatically a "negative view" ... she does not recognize how negative the wts view is to begin with!!!
Take care of Grudgemeister! He's important!
Your sister,
ESTEE
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fearnotruth22
Gary the small one in the pic is your spitting image. If the WTS had allowed the mother of a child of mine to teach them to shun me I woulf not forgive that. In my opinion, the WTS shold pressure the mother to make sure that she allows the father to always have communication with his kids which in my opinion is more importanat than religion. The wts would not break fingernail for my kids but I would give evrything I own if it was needed to save my child.
Gary I feel that it is the mother who is responsible for having your kids shun you, but I also feel that the WTs is more responsible for allowing her. I dont know all of the facts in your case but everything considered religion should not interfere with the love between parents and kids. If religion intereferes. it has become my adversary. Gary Jw fathers experience that also when churches and the state gloat at doing to jw fathers what jw mothers to non jw fathers. As long as Jws get theirs, But always the father suffers from the vindictiveness of his exwife who uses the kids as a shield and delights that the x suffers she doesnt care about the kids as long as the x suffers. Both religion and the state will have to answer for this outrage.
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The Grudge
Hey,
Just wanted to thank everyone again for your support. You have no idea how much I just needed to hear that Im not alone out there in this fight on a personal level.Where my family lacks in emotional support,you all fill that void just enough for me to press on.
Your sister,
Statements like that alone, mean alot to me.Thanks!!!ESTEE
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willyloman
Brother Grudge:
Welcome to this board, and congratulations on displaying the courage to come here and share your intimate thoughts. I only started doing that myself several months ago and believe me, it has been the best therapy I could have hoped for.
I was, until very recently, and elder and WT conductor whose entire family was in "the truth." I am on my journey "out" right now, fading rapidly and (so far) successfully. My wife is coming with me and our grown children are rooting for us from the sidelines, even though most of them are still "in" because of marital or social ties not easily shaken. I have been pleasantly surprised that, once I made a conscientious stand, my whole family has been supportive.
Recently my wife told me, "When you started looking on the internet and running out things for me to read, I was angry with you. I thought you were going off the deep end. But everything I read made sense and expressed my own feelings and frustrations, so I kept an open mind." It worked out that way because I was very SELECTIVE about the materials I presented her with; I weeded out all the crazy stuff and wingnut philosophy and printed out the cream that rises to the top on this board. I approached it the same way she did when she helped me "learn the truth" 30 years ago, by feeding me the best parts, a little at a time.
I have come to realize that the way "out" is the same way we all got in, only in reverse. So my advice is to treat your wife with tenderness the way you'd want to be treated, continue to feed her, but feed her small bites and don't give her more than she can chew. This is what she did with me three decades ago and I bought into the JW program, despite many misgivings, because it brought us closer together.
Love is a powerful force, my brother, and Truth will out. Paul wrote that love never fails and Jesus said the truth shall set you free, and both of these principles -- if you apply them -- will work for you in this situation.
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Nadsam
I am sorry to read this sad tale but from my own experiances (35yrs a JW) basically you only have three options......
Option 1...Go back wholehaertedly to your old JW habits and silently agree to disagree for the sake of your family and friends. Despite what anybody says deep down you know that the majority of the JW's are good kind people who mean well however misguided they may be.
Option 2.... Get out...with a bang
I chose option 2 about 10 years ago. At first my wife was really confused & angry....ha ha ...guess what baby i'm having a midlife crisis ha ha ha so unless you wanna go with me to choose a christmas tree better get going to that meeting co's tonight i'm going party...ha ha.
Seriously though in hindsight it can be painful and lonely at first , but eventually it will come to the point that either you cut yourself loose or they do it for you.Trust me your spouse won't dump you. She can't . You have just become her new project.
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Valis
Welcome to the board Nadsam
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
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sf
I live it from the moment I wake up until the last conscious thought passes through my head at night.
I'm in the very same process...of healing.
{{ hugs }}
sKally
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garybuss
fearnotruth22, Your account is deleted so I don't know what's up with that. I allowed my Witness wife to read Watch Tower books to my kids every night at bedtime and when they got older my dad and Brian Ogara were allowed into our home to study with the smaller one you say looks like me. The result of it all is my dad, Ogara, my wife, the Witnesses, taught my son to shun and snub me. The older one was not active until he was in college that I was paying for, away from home. He cashed all my checks, graduated, and started shunning me.
Today, with the benefit of my past mistakes, I would never marry a Witness woman. I would never have a child with a Witness woman. If I had a child and was living with a Witness woman, she would quit the Witnesses today or I would take the child and move where she could never find us.
I would not let a practicing Witness within 1,000 miles of my children. No mothers, no fathers, no grandparents, no brothers, no sister, no aunts, no uncles, no Witnesses near my family especially the children. They are a living breathing smiling evil. GaryB