My silent ongoing fight against the org.

by The Grudge 45 Replies latest jw experiences

  • The Grudge
    The Grudge

    I?m posting today to get some things out that I haven?t been able to share with anyone else. Why? Because they don?t want to hear it. I?m living in a world of JW? s that do not share my doctrine free, open minded thinking. I was once like them, but I managed to break free. It feels like I am the only one around me that has, however. In other words, I?m alone when it comes to alot of things. I know however, that I am not alone here, and I?d like to first thank all of you here that continue to help me, though unaware, through your uplifting posts. Although, I myself do not get alot of time to post, I read many post from various people and am constantly moved and effected positively, by your influences and attitudes. I love how I can come here when I?m down, read a few posts and I automatically feel better about myself and am able to see that I truly am not alone.

    Okay, so now that I?ve got that mushy stuff out of the way, here is my situation. I'm out of the org, though not dfed or da'd. I haven't been to a meeting in 2 years aside from last years Memorial, and I do not plan on ever going back. My outlook up until about 4 years ago (Im 24 now) was that of a typical JW. I questioned nothing further doctrinally once given any answers mainly because they (the organization) were supposed to have all the ?right? answers. I never had any issues with the teachings, although my life was filled with negative experiences with elders and r&f Jws alike. One,I had a physically abusive father and a mother who was not supportive of his behavior, but stood by him none the less in fear of displeasing Jehovah. Along with this, I?ve had other negative and even disturbing events in dealing with elders and other various Jws,that I will not go into detail about. This way I can remain anonymous to any possible lurkers that are familiar with the situations.

    Now looking back I also realize I had severe social anxiety throughout most of my early teen years as well. I guess that can be attributed to obvious reasons. Then things changed a bit as I started to grow out of it as I matured. I then seemed to fall into the popular "money crowd" clique within the area congregations which slowly began to give me a little more self esteem. For those not familiar with the above term I used ,I?ll explain: In my area, what you have in terms of material possessions along with how much money you can spend going on vacations with these people, equals how much of a social life you will have with this or any of these types of JW cliques. Now, I am and never was by any means, a wealthy individual. However, living with my parents up until my early twenties, allowed me to afford things with my job, such as a nicer then average car, and it freed up cash that is now spent on the average middle class lifestyle (Mortgage, Food, Etc, )that I currently live with my wife. So having a lot of what I thought were friends around me during this period allowed me to start thinking more positively about my life and were it was going both in the organization and all together. So I still had no issues with the JW belief system even as I got a little older because things just seemed to be going right. So why fix it if it aint broke, right? What I believed didn?t seem to have a negative effect on my life at that time so why change? I just always had that "The Organization is Gods, although not perfect since it is in mans control",sort of thinking. Of course that only worked out until things got really personal, and I reached my breaking point.

    Although, I won?t go into full detail, Me and my wife went through a situation in the beginning of our marriage where one of us got dfed. The dfing offence was actually something that happened in the past but came out through certain more recent happenings. It caught us totally off guard and filled the first year of our marriage with the most emotional pain we?ve experienced to date. This said, we obviously did get threw it. This event however and the way it was handled by the JC, other elders, the effects it had on my life, my marriage, and the way my so called friends treated us, was that ?breaking point?. The point of no return where I began to question everything around me, most importantly the Jehovah?s Witness organization. I believe I am now a stronger person because of the things I went through. Not a stronger JW, but a stronger human being.

    Fast forwarding two years to present, I have successfully faded (so far) with no major issues. My family knows how I feel about the organization, although they all continue their regular relationship with me and I think they do this for two reasons. #1. They love me, and my mother having lost a child in death earlier in life, does not want to lose another one by whatever means. #2 They are in denial.I think that is a major reason,since I know they all hope that I will eventually see ?the light?. Unfortunately for them, however, I already have.

    Now, onto my current battle..My wife still believes its the ?truth? and it is starting to effect our relationship once more. I love my wife more then anything, and I know she loves me. It just feels like nothing will ever be completely right having two completely different views. I don't think its something that should come between us like it seems to be doing. I know I would never want to separate just because of that. I love her to much. She is a good person who believes she is trying to do what?s right. I can honestly say although she may be misguided, she is one of the most genuinely loving and caring people that I have met and have in my life. I guess one of the hardest things to deal with is that I get so moved by the things and experiences I here on this site and just stuff that I randomly think about concerning the organization, that I just feel like I should be able to talk to her about it. Guess what? I can?t. Whenever I bring out something about my disagreement with the society she takes offence. I can?t even get her to think about stuff. A few nights ago, for instance, I brought up how the society teaches that at Armageddon millions of people will be destroyed including children. I said how I thought that was just horrible, and that I don?t want to serve a God like that. One who on one hand, is portrayed as just and loving, and on the other, is capable of just the opposite. A total contradiction. She then got real offensive and said that I always talk negatively about things and that she didn?t want to here it anymore. Now, I?m trying to figure out how I am the negative one when I don?t believe this and surely don?t want anything like that to happen. Her best argument was that she never thinks about ?negative? stuff like that. Now I believe my wife is a very intelligent thinking person, if I didn?t believe that I would not have married her. However, I just can?t get past her reasoning or lack there of.??????

    Sometimes I feel so alone in my head. We have a few close friends, fade away or weak JWs who I know feel the same way as my wife,realize I have issues with the "truth",but still consider themselves my friend.(Luckily,not typical JWs.) Its like they think that if they don?t think about things in detail that everything will just turn out fine. Well, thats not me.

    I just don?t know if its ever going to come to a point were this doesn?t affect our relationship anymore.One comment she said to me in a heated argument we had a few weeks ago was that she didn?t think she wanted to have children because she was afraid they?d be "mixed up." This was the first time she ever said anything like that and it was very hurtful to me since we were both anticipating having children later on down the road. All I could think of (although I didn?t say it) was that they would only be "mixed up" if she remained an active JW. So of course, she is thinking that she would want to start going to meetings again and raise a JW child/children. If we do have kids, I don?t think I would try to stop her from taking them to meetings. However, I would certainly be there to monitor their social behavior, making sure they weren?t developing certain attitudes and that they weren?t being abused in any way, including mentally.... I guess that would be a huge task, considering all the crap they would try to put into their heads. from early onward, but I wouldn?t know what else to do??? ARRrhhh!! I feel so lost sometimes as to what to do. Sorry, if I?m rambling. I just need to get this out. If any are reading this. Thanks! Any comments, suggestions, or experiences are welcomed and appreciated.

  • aunthill
    aunthill

    Welcome to the board TG.

    If I were you, I would go to Randy Watters website, www.freeminds.org, scroll down to "How I helped my family leave the WT." There is a wealth of information on how to plant ideas without arousing too much suspicion.

    Under present circumstances, I recommend not having children until this situation is resolved. My children grew up in a divided household (I was the JW) and it was really hard on them, not to mention my husband.

    Good luck.

    Patty

  • link
    link

    TG,

    I just couldn’t believe the number of bells your post rang for me. This is my situation precisely although I never got baptised because I found out a lot of things were not quite right before I got to the baptism stage.

    Your wife attitude is exactly the same as mines and they even say the same things so I will tell you what I have found.

    Firstly, because I did not get baptised, my wife is not so hard on me and makes a lot of allowances for me not being a Witness. Secondly I have found that by not joining in any conversation with her about religion, I can keep on safe ground. I never ever try and give her information (in a direct way) or change what she believes – only she can do that. When she brings up religious issues I just nod and say "yes" and "Mmmm", "that’s right" etc even if she is talking the most absolute rubbish – as happens from time to time.

    So really it can only work if you are both wanting it to work. She has to give you some leeway as a former JW and you have to allow her to have her religion. The problem is that, like you say, you have to arrive at this situation without ever talking about it or discussing it in any way. That is real hard but if you think about it it can be done, you just have to feel your way there. Believe me this is not a "no hope" situation.

    I think the most important thing I have learned is to bite my tongue even when I am bursting to tell her how wrong she is.

    I hope things sort themselves out for you and if you would like to PM me at any time, please feel free.

    link

  • 95stormfront
    95stormfront
    Whenever I bring out something about my disagreement with the society she takes offence. I can?t even get her to think about stuff. A few nights ago, for instance, I brought up how the society teaches that at Armageddon millions of people will be destroyed including children. I said how I thought that was just horrible, and that I don?t want to serve a God like that. One who on one hand, is portrayed as just and loving, and on the other, is capable of just the opposite. A total contradiction. She then got real offensive and said that I always talk negatively about things and that she didn?t want to here it anymore.

    I'm married to a mirror image of the same woman. My wife exibits the same qualities you describe about yours yet she just can't get past the WT is always right mantra. We recently had a conversation between us and her "always a study" JW brother where we were discussing the implications of the definition of the "generation" change. After that she decided to "go off" on me about how critical I am of the Soceity and that whenever there's talk of the "truth" I always have a negative slant on it.

    When I introduced the Soceity's UN debacle to them there was outright denial and a refusal to look at any information even from an independent source of the UN itself, yet they all had no problem trotting out WT literature to prove their false point that the WT would never engage in such an act.

    I just don?t know if its ever going to come to a point were this doesn?t affect our relationship anymore.

    I think it's all in how you approach it. With my wife, I don't ask or otherwise show any interest in her WT related activities which are sparse anyway. I plan activities irrespective of what meeting, assembly, or special assembly day they fall on. Whenever she does ask and I do decide to go with her, it is purely at my convenience and she knows that I won't be deterred when it comes to pointing out the hypocrisy and heavy handedness of the Soceity.

    I'm not sure how long this is going to last though. A couple of relatives around her are turning up the heat as far as their meeting attendance and preaching activities and I can see that it's beginning to rub off on her and that she wants to participate more. But, on the other hand, she really enjoys the activities we do together and doesn't want to risk alienating me, probably because at this time I'm her only means of support, hopefully because she truly does love me. She knows, in no uncertain terms, that though I love her dearly, I'm prepared to live my life happily with her, without her if circumstances dictate.

  • 95stormfront
    95stormfront
    When she brings up religious issues I just nod and say "yes" and "Mmmm", "that?s right" etc even if she is talking the most absolute rubbish ? as happens from time to time.
    I think the most important thing I have learned is to bite my tongue even when I am bursting to tell her how wrong she is.

    Just how long to do you keep this up though?

    I was sitting at a table having lunch the other day with a bunch of dub relative and it literally took alll the concentration I had to keep from jumping up telling them all how stupid and wrong they all were. It's getting to the point where I'm getting sick and tired of listening to them go on and on singing the praises of the "organization"and I fear that my silence on the issue is somehow giving them the impression that I am in agreement with them..

  • sf
    sf

    Yes, welcome.

    It still amazes me after all these years of re-searching the wt org. just how many family nucleus' that it can and does completely obliterate...by it's twisted policies based on twisted litter-ature based on twisted interpretation of a twisted book.

    Wait. Did that make ANY sense? The part at the end?

    Anyway, you get my drift. Simply: Watchtower/jw church is poison to any family.

    I too encourage you to educate yourself on this corrupt corporation and it's 'dealings' by visiting sites mentioned in this thread.

    Again, welcome a'board'.

    sKally

  • link
    link

    95sf,

    I was sitting at a table having lunch the other day with a bunch of dub relative

    You can keep it up forever if you don’t do this. I have said that with my wife and me its give and take. She does not expect me to sit and listen to a bunch of dubs discussing weird doctrines, relative or not. Either she changes the subject as soon as she is able or she understand if I suddenly realise I have an urgent job to do elsewhere.

    Once you have that understanding working its OK. We love each other and know that if we want a life together then there has to be some give and take, like I said.

    link

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    Welcome to the board! Your situation is very similar to the one my husband (Big Tex) and I found ourselves in for about 15 years. He was very patient with me and waited until I saw the same things he did and left on my own terms. He told me that he didn't want to try to sway me because he wanted it to be my decision to leave. Alright, so I'm a little slow!

    Anyway, it was difficult at times, but our marriage survived because we both had respect for each other's beliefs and choices. I tried not to play mind games with him about the meetings -- if I needed him there for a particular reason, I told him. And he gave me my space, though I know it was hard at times. We had two children during this time and I took them to meetings because we really didn't know what else to do. HOWEVER, right before I left, he noticed that our daughter, who was 8 at the time, was starting to get a very "them and us" attitude and talk about how everyone except JW's would be destroyed at Armageddon. That disturbed him. Of course, now that we're completely out, the children are ecstatic about the simple pleasures of school friends and sleepovers, birthday parties and Christmas, and never EVER want to enter a Kingdom Hall again.

    Good luck! Keep us posted!

    Nina

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Whew! You are really carring a lot of crap around! I don't envy you in yur delima.. My feeling is that you only have one recourse. You find the guidance for infinite patience and love from the words of Jesus. She can't fault you if you are trying to be a better Christian by following those directions. Forget the other stuff, just do everything in His name. I know it would be hard for me, as I tend to loose patience with the ones with a short dipstick mentally and emotionally, but if she is as loving and smart as you think, she will have to secumb to the Davy Crockett effect, ie, grin the dam bear to death!!

    I wish you well, my brother.

    carmel

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Welcome, Hope it all works out the way you want.

    When you wrote:

    She is a good person who believes she is trying to do what's right. I can honestly say although she may be misguided,

    I remembered that was the lie I fed myself for years. When you are 60 years old and you have sat alone 6 days a week for 26 years and your misguided wife has managed to get your kids to shun you and keep you from your grandchildren, try to remember an old guy on an internet list in 2004 who told you to FLUSH.

    Good people can think and will be objective and they are anxious to be helped if they are misguided. You got a BIG problem.

    I had it once. GaryB





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