When good elders do bad things...

by True North 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • True North
    True North

    Recently I had occasion to speak with an elder I hadn't seen in a while. (Although I've been out for twenty years now, my wife and some of my children are still locked within the org's tender embrace, which led to my happening to encounter him and our resultant conversation.) He's someone I consider a really good guy at heart, truly caring and sincerely working at being a good shepherd as he sees it.

    In thinking about him afterwards, it occurred to me that since he is also wholly devoted to the organization, he would feel obliged to enforce the org's rule in the congregation without regard for any "collateral damage" or for what the average unaffiliated (i.e. "worldly") person would consider the justice of a situation. However, I found myself wondering if he would, nonetheless, ever be troubled by any suffering or injustice that resulted from some judicial action he felt compelled to take.

    So my question is, how do good elders feel about enforcing shunning on people who merely want to leave with honor and maintain family relationships, or disfellowshiping and demonizing honest doubters as apostates, or telling victims they must remain with victimizing spouses or parents, or hushing up crimes they personally believe to have been committed but for which there are not the requisite two witnesses, and so forth? It seems to me that good people (and I believe from personal experience that many elders are good people) would feel very troubled in such circumstances. But perhaps I'm wrong -- never having been an elder myself. Does the organizational sanction and their devotion to "keeping the congregation clean" perhaps protect them from ever having troubled consciences?

    (BTW, this is not of solely hypothetical interest as, depending upon how some things work out, I could possibly be on the receiving end of some unwelcome elderly attention in the not too distant future.)

  • Maverick
    Maverick

    Good question!

    The problem is the elders don't see what they are doing as "bad"!

    The WTS has put a "them or us"..."God's side" or the "Devil side" to the whole business. Everything is conditional. Few elders will look beyond the printed page...clue...not the Bible.... on anything the WTS considers worthy of committee.

    Sorry I know this is a non-answer to your question. Maverick

  • onintwo
    onintwo

    I can't imagine a person, such as you've described, not being pained over any negative fallout as a result of a decision he made. Only an uncaring, cold-hearted individual would not carry around and think (worry) about how his shepherding was affecting others.

    Not saying there aren't these types in the Borg. Clearly there are. But my money is that they (the elders) probably don't relish disciplinary actions, but will do it out of their misplaced trust in the Governing Buzzards.

    Onintwo

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    how do good elders feel about enforcing shunning on people who merely want to leave with honor and maintain family relationships, or disfellowshiping and demonizing honest doubters as apostates, or telling victims they must remain with victimizing spouses or parents, or hushing up crimes they personally believe to have been committed but for which there are not the requisite two witnesses, and so forth?

    True North,

    It seems they will feel very good about doing such things and will not feel that twinge of conscience you expect. The scriptures do not even attempt to call them good elders as you do. In a series of prophecies about such people both in and out of the faith our Lord said:

    24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. {cut?: or, cut him off}

    They are the damned or castoffs whatever the case may be and should not be looked upon as good people. The respect given to them by the victims of their supposed theology is totally unwarranted and undeserved. Our Lord has the right idea regarding them and will deal with them properly as shown here His own testimony.

    Joseph

  • Stephanus
    Stephanus

    Joseph's right about that. The Tower has eliminated the simple Biblical advice on what constitutes good and bad servanthood and elevated it to a cosmic level. Since elders serve the FDS, they are by default good because the FDS has been declared to be good by God. Their actions are nothing to do with it.

  • dustyb
    dustyb

    i really don't think that some elders have consiences....i think a few of them are heartless bastards that do the greater amount of good for the greater amount of people (unitarian). thats the way a lot of the old ones are, and it just chaps my ass to see a few of them do the things they've done and say, especially to me and my g/f. and the others are right too, the elders think that whatever they say is right, because they have the label. hell, tomorrow they can say that it is alright for blood, someone go get a blood transfusion, and then come back and i think the elders would still disfellowship them based upon tradition...so do the elders have my favor?? no

  • Makena1
    Makena1

    "But my money is that they (the elders) probably don't relish disciplinary actions, but will do it out of their misplaced trust in the Governing Buzzards"

    With few exceptions, in my experience, this statement tells it like it is.

    Interesting thread.

    Mak

  • garybuss
    garybuss




    Hi TN, Even before I read your post, I was trying to put a face with "good elder" and I couldn't. I have no reference point for the concept. Must be like a good Nazi huh?

    Hope you had a good week. A tenant backed into my pickup yesterday. $1,600 damage. 17" snow last week, 14 more this week. Oh well!



  • True North
    True North

    I've noticed that some former elders post on this site. If any such one is reading this thread, do you consider yourself to have been -- as an elder -- basically good at heart, truly caring, and sincerely working at being a good shepherd. If so, how did you feel when compelled by the org. to render judgement 'without regard for any "collateral damage" or for what the average unaffiliated (i.e. "worldly") person would consider the justice of a situation'? Did your conscience ever bother you? Were you ever troubled? And if so, did this ever somehow modify your course of action?

  • wednesday

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