Sneaky Russian
You sound like you think England will be an Islamic state in 2025.
Israeli army does it again!
by Waymores Ghost 30 Replies latest social current
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Satanus
Seeing as pro-israel jews are predominant in american news, very little from the other side gets through. For instance, the unarmed baker, in the above report, w his bag of flour dusty work clothes, making his way to his job, would be reported as a terrorist carrying explosives. It wouldn't tell how they shot him once, without checking the bag. Then, being wounded and unarmed, totally helpless, they filled him w lead. After they shot him once, the ambulance being right there, could have taken him away, but israeli 'soldiers' would not allow that. Jewish heavy american news wouldn't report about the family he left behind. Just another 'terrorist'.
SS
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Waymores Ghost
If their intelligence is that good, they could take these guys into custody, like they've done with countless others. The indiscriminate bombing of vehicles with no regard to who else might be in that vehicle is just the old "eye for an eye" business, as usual. The Israelis are just as bloodthirsty as anybody else over there. They always have been. Read the Old Testament.
Wg
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Sneaky Russian
You sound like you think England will be an Islamic state in 2025
Do I? I have reservations on that one!
Although it may as well be, it's changed a bit since the last time I visited!
Can you explain a bit more please?
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Euphemism
Seattle... sounds like a fair argument... just one question, if you happen to know... what proportion of those casualties are civilians vs combatants, on each side? At a venture, I would guess that the Israeli side has a much higher ratio of civilian casualties. But I would be interested to know whether or not that's true.
Whatever the answer, I don't think that Palestinian misdeeds justify Israeli misdeeds, of course. Israel owes the family of the civilian victim in this case compensation and an apology. Fighting terrorists is no excuse for becoming like them.
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Yerusalyim
Sneaky Russian,
Found the following on the USS Liberty, sounds good, I'll buy this end of it. How about you?
Israel blamed for USS Liberty attack
By Nicholas Kralev
THE WASHINGTON TIMESThe U.S. government has not reached a definitive conclusion on whether Israel deliberately attacked the USS Liberty in 1967, but it appears that the Jewish state is guilty of "gross negligence," a State Department official said yesterday.
The United States was negligent, too, the official noted, for failing to inform Israel that the Navy spy ship was in international waters off the Egyptian coast and for keeping the vessel in the region, even though the six-day Arab-Israeli war had just broken out.
The incident, in which 34 Americans were killed and more than 170 wounded, has been veiled in secrecy for nearly 37 years, giving impetus to numerous conspiracy theories.
"The conclusion we reached is that the attack constituted a flagrant act of gross negligence, for which the Israeli government should be solely responsible," the official told reporters at the State Department.
But he said many questions have not been ? and may never be ? answered, mainly because the United States did not intercept any communication during the attack but only after it had happened.
That revelation came two weeks after the June 8 incident in a memorandum that the director of the National Security Agency (NSA), Marshall S. Carter, wrote to President Johnson.
"This activity deals solely with the aftermath of the attack by Israeli jet aircraft and torpedo boats on the USS Liberty. There are no [communications intercept] reflections of the actual attack itself," Mr. Carter wrote.
The State Department official said yesterday there was no reason not to believe the statement.
He also said the Israeli pilots might not have recognized the U.S. Navy ship, even though the pilots on an earlier flight that day had identified the vessel correctly.
"To me it sounds plausible that you would shoot first and investigate later," he said.
A full-fledged investigation was never conducted ? although the military initiated an early probe ? and the U.S. government has been trying to reconstruct the events of the fatal day largely based on documents, the vast majority of which were classified.
Some of the documents have been declassified for use in the newly published 19th volume of the Foreign Relations of the United States series.
"The good news is that information long sought by researchers is now out, and the bad news is that it does not settle it," David Hatch, a technical director at the NSA, said at a State Department conference yesterday.
The Johnson administration never formally challenged Israel's position that the attack was a result of mistaken identity.
The Israeli government said after the incident that its forces thought the Liberty was an Egyptian vessel. It apologized to the United States and paid nearly $13 million in compensation, some of which went to the victims or their families.
The State Department official called the attack ? carried out with cannon fire and napalm ? and U.S. actions in its aftermath "a classic case of Murphy's law: everything that could possibly go wrong between two countries."
He also said there is a good reason to believe that if the Israelis wanted to sink the Liberty, they "would have sent their best bombers" and done it "with no witnesses and no fingerprints."
"Everybody makes mistakes," he said.
Everything surrounding the case has been so secretive that it is not even known what the Liberty's mission was that day, another State Department official said.
The official noted, however, that at the time "the administration was interested in what the Soviets were doing at the beginning of the war," in which Israel defeated the combined forces of Egypt, Syria, Jordan and other Arab countries.
After the attack, "the ship went on its own steam to Malta and was later scrapped," the official said. -
seattleniceguy
Euph:
That, of course, is an excellent question, but one whose answer is difficult to come by precisely because of the scant reporting of the Israeli-side killings. But, since mainstream US news outlets generally trumpet Israeli killings of terrorist heads, and since those reports come so infrequently, I strongly suspect that the vast majority of Israeli-side killings are of civilians.
SNG
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stillajwexelder
When you are fighting somebody with the mindset of the Palestinians -the only thing they truly understand is force and violence -- do you really think if Israel was all nice and captured them and took years to take them to court that the Palestians would respect them --all tthey are interested in is the destruction of the State of Israel. Some would kill every Jew/Israeli on earth if they could and plead it was the will of Allah -- I do not agree with all Israel does -- but some times you just have to hit the enemy hard
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seattleniceguy
Stilla,
the only thing they truly understand is force and violence
If it were true that force and violence were good ways to solve this problem, then we should be seeing progress. Think about it from the Palestinian side. When you see Israelis make your life a living hell by confining you to refugee camp "cities" and killing your men, women, and children, it only breeds the despair that allows you to think about making some desperate stab back.
do you really think if Israel was all nice and captured them and took years to take them to court that the Palestians would respect them
I think that if the Israelis did not mow down Palestinian innocents by the thousands that Palestinians would be far less enraged, and extremists would have less fuel.
all tthey are interested in is the destruction of the State of Israel
Really, this is the same type of generalization that keeps the cycle of violence going. We could just as easily say that all the Israelis are interested in is the destruction of Palestine, but that would also be false. There are elements on both sides who want these things, but generalizations do both sides a disservice.
I don't mean to make one side out to be better than the other, as I've pointed out. I simply find it difficult to see how the Israelis are less guilty than the Palestinians in this case. Indeed, as the far stronger and more technologically advanced nation, I believe they have a weightier responsibility for the continued cycle of violence.
SNG
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Waymores Ghost
Hi xelder,
all they are interested in is the destruction of the State of Israel. Some would kill every Jew/Israeli on earth if they could and plead it was the will of Allah
It's obvious that Israel doesn't want the Palestinians to have their own state, either. You might want to take a look in the Old Testament and count the number of times Israel slaughtered hordes of folks and claimed that Jah gave them the victory.
Israel reminds me of the mouthy little prick in the schoolyard that you always wanted to kick the snot out of, but he always got away with shit because his best friend was the school bully.
Wg