USA Election 2004 (page 23)

Badger

Yeru:

NO WAY! I'd like to see this one beat out the "I'm a killer" thread.

Yerusalyim

How about we change the title to the USA Election 2004...Goes Underground!

czarofmischief

Are you prepared to pay 50% plus of your income in taxes if national health care is added? Before you get all hyped on government run health care, come see what we in the military get for treatment...or at the VA...etc...the government has a tendency to screw up wet dreams.

I don't trust the government. I don't earn enough for 50 percent to really mean anything. I already pay 30 percent to the government, and then another 40 percent to the group health insurance plan at my work. And I don't get diddly from the government. And the insurance I have sucks...

I have been to the VA. It is terrible. Hm. I wonder... Well, what do you suggest? The uninsured are a boiling pot waiting to explode in violent revolution. And more and more educated people are joining their ranks. Which, if you know history, it's when educated middle class people become poverty stricken is when revolution happens. They are disillusioned and angry and educated enough to know what to do about it.

End transmission.

CZAR

Yerusalyim

A good start would be for reform in medical malpractice suits...the cost of healthcare is so high because doctors pay so much for malpractice insurance. Another help would be to allow small businesses to group together to give their dollar more buying power....these drops in the bucket would soon start to add up to cheaper health insurance. Medical savings accounts...vouchers with private health insurance companies, etc these are all starts. All I know is that we can't afford universal health care coverage in the vision Hillary has...it would quite literally bankrupt our nation.

Valis

So Yeru...when the doc chops off the wrong appendage they shouldn't have to pay? How about loss of license instad of paying out? AND Restriction from working in the medical profession? Ya think the sorry whinging ass mofos who make huge amounts of money from being a doctor would be more careful then eh? You start hosing bad doctors, but this still doesn't leave people w/relief when the docs screw up or cause loss of life. EVERYTHING is about money now and it is sad to say that it has come to this, but you know when doctors get lawyers to defend thier screw ups they need to be reamed! End of story...AND the hospitals that won't admit and apologize for massive fuck ups...NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!

Universal health care is unrealistic in our country I think...we have such a fluid population that it could never be fair to everyone.

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

Yerusalyim

Valis,

I said medical malpractice REFORM, not elimination. There's a huge difference between incompetence, and doing the best you can under the circumstances. This has happened...a baby was born with brain damage from the delivery...somehow forceps were involved...doing this saved both the mother's life and the baby's life...and the doctor was sued (and paid large) because he saved both mother and baby, but caused brain damage with the forceps.

Valis

Yeru...we could get into situational ethics and cases, but we would continue this thread ad infinitum...I agree w/you about some lawsuits, but if a hospital screws up or a lack of attention occurs then IMO they should get the crap sued out of them. Doctors buy the ticket and take the ride as far as our lives are concerned IMO.

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

seattleniceguy

Farkel:

Okay, about the grammar...I realize you know your stuff. I was responding to what I perceived as you trying to beat up your opponents with an air of intellectual superiority, which angers me to no small degree. I suppose I thought I'd give you a taste of your own medicine. Let's put that little episode behind us.

I have to say I was heartened to hear that you disagree with Bush's insane push for a constitutional amendment. My goodness. How can this man be leading the free world? Leading us back to the dark ages, he is.

But I still had to disagree with you one one point:

I do have a problem with foreigners who have "authority" like Simon using that "authority" as a soapbox in an attempt (possibly) to attempt to change the opinion of genuine American voters.

Come on, man. That is absurd. In your world, no one in any perceived position of authority should make a political statement. After all, would it not represent that person using his position of authority as a soapbox? Are you saying that the mere act of making an opinion on this board represents a misuse of his authority? Simon did not say, "As Supreme Adminstrator of this board, I declare that Bush shall not be President in 2004."

And what's this about changing the opinion of "genuine American voters"? What, voters aren't intelligent to listen to a variety of political opinions and make an informed choice? Voters are going to be bowled over by the glorious soapboxes of authoritative foreigners? I will refer you to a quote from Thomas Jefferson:

I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education.

Forgive me if I'm understanding you incorrectly, but it sounds to me like you think the common voter "not enlightened enough" - that without carefully guarding them from thoughts and opinions which may be persuasive or even come from "foreigners who have 'authority,' " they might quickly have their senses overwhelmed and their genuine American opinions changed! I say, the more political dialogue we have, the better. I'd like to see everyone comment, from least to greatest on any scale of authority, real or imagined. I honestly can think of no legitimate reason to supress anyone's ideas, least of all by calling them "obviously prejudiced" and accusing that person of abusing authority. SNG

Farkel

Yeru,

It's a complicated subject, and I'm glad I'm not in charge of dealing with it:

: A good start would be for reform in medical malpractice suits...the cost of healthcare is so high because doctors pay so much for malpractice insurance.

The counter point to this has two fronts:

1) Insurance is too expensive because a high number of physcians are not doing their job. (My daughter is a doctor)

2) Too many freaky people sue over anything, even stuff they shouldn't.

Next,

: Another help would be to allow small businesses to group together to give their dollar more buying power....these drops in the bucket would soon start to add up to cheaper health insurance.

This can only be done if the local governments would stop picking their pockets, yet local governments live and die by picking the pockets of small business. They rape the little guy and swoon in front of the big guy. This has happened since time began. I'm a small business guy, and if I played by all of their rules, I'd be bankrupt. Local (State govs on down) governments prey on the small guys. They get their money and influence from the BIG guys. This gives them the audacity to rape the small guys/gals. I've challenged people in government for 20 years to PROVE to me how they champion the small business in California, since they claim to do it. They can't because they don't. They HINDER small busineses with undue regulations and fees.

: Medical savings accounts...vouchers with private health insurance companies, etc these are all starts. All I know is that we can't afford universal health care coverage in the vision Hillary has...it would quite literally bankrupt our nation

As the owner of 7 small businesses, (I made money and I lost money on 'em) since 1969, I barely could afford to pay the extra social security benefits (I had to match the employee's contribution dollar-for-dollar) and the workman's compensation benefits and the State Disability benefits plus pay for a business permit. Plus, I had to account for all of this and send my accounting to the State (People's
Republic) of California and the IRS (People's Republic From Hell) without any compensation or thanks.

This was in 1973. Back then, I operated a "high-tech" business which was involved in only on thing: cleaning people's carpets. I got outta that business, because California worked diligently to put little people like me out of that business, by trying to take every dime we made. Often, before we even made it. I hate California, and I've lived most of my life here.

Farkel

Phantom Stranger

The Wall Street Journal today figures that at this stage of the campaign, Kerry is in the strongest position of any Democratic nominee in years. He has "unity within a normally fractious party, a positive introduction to the American public and a narrow national lead over President Bush." "You probably have to go back more than 50 years to find a nominating process less divisive," said Wesley Clark's former pollster. "There is no meaningful group of disaffected Democrats coming out of this process." The Journal notes that Bush, by contrast, has been moving to the right to placate his base.

Course, it's a long course...but it's looking like a horse race.

USA Election 2004

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