USA Election 2004

by Simon 242 Replies latest social current

  • Badger
    Badger

    Czar:

    I don't have a beef with the Electoral College...Like I said, it is an important part of our Federalist tradition.

    However, I question both the behavior of Katherine Harris (who simultaneously was in charge of the final vote count and on Bush's campaign staff -- a conflict of interest) in purging the voter rolls of tens of thousands of African-Americans and the Decision of the U.S. Supreme Court (In a VERY Partisan vote) to stop the count. (Read "Betrayal of America" by Bugliosi).

    In that respect, Bush cheated.

  • Satans little helper
    Satans little helper

    There's pretty much no question that the last election was won by Bush's family and aides doing things that were questionable, thing that everyone misses is that Gore lost because he had no charisma and came across as being as animated as a plank. The guy had no drive and despite hating Bush's politics you have to hand it to him for having the single minded determination to do what he believes is right.

    Bush will lose this election, by a long way. Too many people in the USA are seeing Bush for what he truly is - the mouthpiece of big business and financial interest. His tax cuts have only benefitted those with alot of money already and the economy has gone from having record excess to having a record defecit. He's not made the USA safe, rather he has turned the whole nation into paranoid wrecks, scared of the slightest threat and prepared to surrender their democratic rights to the government who knows what's best (how much like the JW's does that sound to you?). I do not think Bush lied about the evidence for war with Iraq, rather I think he misrepresented the evidence that existed and Yeru, for your information the only intel they had was from a single British source which was highly questionable. That it was proved to be wrong was not exactly surprising when you consider Bush's desperate desire to circumvent the effective weapons inspections that were being carried out by the UN. I was completely against the war from day one, partly because friends of mine were out there and partly because it was obvious what would happen - iraq would become a hotbed of terrorism and a clarion call for terrorists. People were oppressed by Saddam but that was none of our business, to say it was is to say that we should invade Saudi Arabia next because of their human rights record and that we should be sending the Marines to half the countries in the world to tell them how they should run their countries - although that wouldn't be such good business for our arms companies would it?

    The war will be a huge issue in this election but he is being seen for the dummy he is, he has no ability to think on the fly and has regularly been shown to be frighteningly ignorant of world affairs and the 'big picture'. I would like to see him on a televised debate with Kerry, the guy would wipe the floor with him. This will be a dirty campaign because Bush will not give up power easily, neither will the special interest groups bankrolling him, he already has an enormous campaign chest and too many people believe the crap they see on adverts.

    Come November we shall see who is in control, fortunately I do not have to live with the possibility of being ruled by Bush, even by proxy as I will be in Australia

  • Phantom Stranger
    Phantom Stranger

    INSTEAD OF ADMITTING ECONOMIC TRUTH, BUSH RESORTS TO STATISTICAL MANIPULATION

    http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df02242004.html

    President Bush, attempting to obscure his record as the worst economic
    steward since Herbert Hoover, has become so desperate that he is exploring
    ways to manipulate statistics. Just days after Bush reneged on his pledge to
    create 2.6 million jobs and said with a straight face that "5.6%
    unemployment is a good national number," the New York Times uncovered a
    White House report showing that the president is considering re-classifying
    low-paid fast food jobs as "manufacturing jobs" as a way to hide the massive
    manufacturing job losses that have occurred during his term.

    As CBS News reports, "Since the month President Bush was inaugurated, the
    economy has lost about 2.7 million manufacturing jobs." But if the president
    enacts the statistical change he is considering, this number would be
    purposely obscured because lower-paying fast-food jobs would be added to
    make the real manufacturing losses look smaller. Of course, fast-food jobs
    typically pay much less and have fewer benefits than real manufacturing
    jobs, meaning the statistical change would also obscure the fact that, under
    Bush, "in 48 of the 50 states, jobs in higher-paying industries have given
    way to jobs in lower-paying industries." All told, jobs in growing
    industries like lower-paid service sector/fast food jobs are paying 21% less
    than contracting industries like real manufacturing.
    The president's efforts to manipulate statistics and mislead Americans is
    also getting a boost from his allies on Capitol Hill. Earlier this month,
    Senate Budget Committee Chairman Don Nickles (R-OK) was pointing to an
    optimistic "household" jobs survey as proof that "we're at an all-time high
    in employment" and that "the employment situation has improved rather
    substantially.'' The problem is that Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan
    said definitively that "payroll data" - not the household survey - "is the
    series which you have to follow" in order to be accurate. The payroll data
    shows "a loss of more than two million jobs since 2001."

  • Love_Truth
    Love_Truth

    Ah! "Statistical Manipulation"!! In reality, there are more jobs available, on average, and a lower unemployment rate, on average, than in the previous four decades (US). That is a fact.

    It may be hard to believe that the current 5.6 percent unemployment rate is lower than the average unemployment rates during the 1970s (6.4 percent), 1980s (7.3 percent) or 1990s (5.8 percent). In fact, unemployment is at its lowest average since the 1960s. The point is that unemployment statistics are based on a sampling of businesses and households, which leaves a lot of room for interpretation and spin. Overall, the indicators seem to bolster the view that unemployment is very low, at 5.6%. Underutilization of labor is not unemployment. There are many new busineses and independant contractors that are missed in both the household and businesss statistics. These will be accounted for after the election.

    Sorry, but if you drop out and give up, you shouldn't count:
    Laziness should not be rewarded or acknowledged. There's a big difference between being unemployed and taking whatever job you can get until something better comes along, and giving up. The 9.7% number that left wing media throws around is underutilization, NOT unemployment. Unemployment is at 5.6%. What do you think the underutilization numbers were in the Clinton era? Care to guess? Hint- 12.7%.

    There is NO GUARANTEE in the Constitution or anywhere else of a job paying as much as you'd like. How much BETTER can it get? Unemployment is at it's LOWEST compared to the averages of each decade since the 1960s!!!

    One more point: those who are fond of bringing up those "1000 jobs" from last quarter?s reports apparently don?t realize that those 1000 jobs do NOT account for start-ups, the self-employed, and independent contractors. Those numbers will not come out until late this year, after the election. So anyone laid-off who started their own company or became self-employed is missed in the "1000" number. And the ?we lost 53,000 jobs? banter is lacking in the same manner, that is, that number in non-inclusive of start-ups, the self-employed, and independent contractors.

    EVERYONE has the opportunity to educate them selves, to work hard, to save or not save, to plan or not plan. That goes back to PERSONAL responsibility. Those "discouraged" folks need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and either be employed, self-employed, or be an employer. Why yes, there are some who will get jobs from time to time, then either get sick of them and quit or get themselves fired and go on unemployment. If they can?t find a job at the same pay-scale, then it is their choice to accept or not accept a lesser paying job. A lower paying job is better than NO JOB.

    It's not the Bush administration's fault.

    If there is no demand for your talents, then move to where the demand is, or find something else to supply.

    The economy, by all measures, is improving, not dying. I fail to see any substance to yet another liberal media myth.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Voting Machines anyone?

    In an election for the Florida house of representatives last month, the touch screens voting stations recorded 127 blank votes - possibly by people who didn't understand what they were doing. The margin was 12 votes. No recount was possible as there was nothing to recount.

    Last year in Indiana, (rather amusingly apt number here), a system recorded 144,000 vites (well, a bit over) when there wer less than 19,000 registered voters.

    Maryland has spent $55 million on voting macines that were found by a security firmk to allow the casting of multiple votes.

    MILLIONS of votes will be cast in November by sytems which are vulnerable and which allow no recount.

    What fun elections are. I'm looking forward to seeing Blair squirm, but the American elections are an excellent sideshow until then...

  • Phantom Stranger
    Phantom Stranger

    My cited numbers are from the Bush administration's reports. Where are yours from?

  • Love_Truth
  • Love_Truth
    Love_Truth

    I wrote the article about a month and a half ago, edited to bring it up to date.

    Some of the sources used were (I have other sources bookmarked, but can't find them at this moment):

    http://www.bls.gov/

    US Bureau of Labor and Statistics.

    Additional commentary here:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,108290,00.html

    Or type "US Unemployment rates" "US Underultilization rates", etc in any browser.

  • Phantom Stranger
    Phantom Stranger

    Rather than researching your argument, I decided to post pictures that reflect my own.

    http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2003_archives/003021.html

  • Love_Truth
    Love_Truth

    Rather than restate one of the key points, here is an excerpt from http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,108290,00.html

    "The Department of Labor provides two different sets of labor market statistics: the Establishment Survey and the Household Survey. The Establishment Survey polls 400,000 companies on how many employees they have. The Household Survey questions 60,000 households each month on whether they have jobs and whether someone is looking for one.

    There are a number of technical reasons that the two surveys can yield different numbers. For example, people with more than one job will be counted multiple times in the establishment survey. On the other hand, the self-employed are only counted by the household survey.

    The so-called ?jobless recovery? (search) picture is painted using the Household Survey for calculating the unemployment rate but using the Establishment Survey for the number of jobs created. The Household Survey can be used for both measures as it, too, provides estimates on the total number of people employed. But the two surveys have implied dramatically different changes in employment over the last few years. Over the last year, the Household Survey shows that almost two million new jobs have been created, while the Establishment Survey indicated a job loss of 62,000 jobs. Over the entire Bush administration, the Household Survey found that about 2.4 million new jobs have been created. By contrast, the Establishment Survey shows a net addition of only 522,000.

    Why the difference? The number of companies does not remain fixed. Old firms die and new ones are born. The Establishment Survey finds out about the company deaths quickly, but it takes longer to learn about births. The current list of firms surveyed excludes firms started over almost the entire last two years. What the Establishment Survey shows is that total employment in older firms has changed little over the last three years. It completely missed the growth in new jobs among new startups and self-employment.

    Not surprisingly, the choice of numbers is central to the political debate. Using the Establishment Survey, Democratic presidential candidates charge that over two million jobs have been lost under the Bush administration from January 2001 to January 2003...Part of the problem may simply be the complicated nature of these numbers. The Establishment Survey is much larger, surveying 400,000 businesses, compared to the 60,000 households used by the other survey. The Establishment Survey makes the claim of being more comprehensive, but the Household Survey is still quite large and it has always been the ?official? measure for calculating the unemployment rate. The systematic bias in the Establishment Survey is what is important: it completely ignores new startup businesses, and we have had an usually large expansion in this category over the last couple of years.

    By only referring to the Establishment Survey numbers, the media has implicitly taken sides in the debate, albeit perhaps unknowingly. A simple Nexis computer search of the news media from Nov. 1, 2003, to Jan. 10 finds 975 stories using the term ?jobless recovery? to describe the U.S. economy... Eventually the Establishment Survey numbers will be adjusted for all the new startups that have sprung up over the last couple of years. Unfortunately, much of this won?t be reported until after the 2004 elections when all but a handful of historians and economists will pay attention."

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