If Jesus died so Christians can be saved...... (page 4)

DevonMcBride

If the bible was divine than God would have known about Adam's fall. Your question reassures me Pagan views.

Devon

Phantom Stranger

Devon, I got you mixed up with someone else - FYI - my apologies.

Yes, it's hard to say that God has a plan but Adam wasn't part of it, isn't it? The JW's attempts to resolve this paradox were pretty philsophically sophomoric - I remember asking an elder whom I liked and respected this question, getting his best and earnest attempt at an answer, and feeling as if there was no way I was buying that load of crap.

Abaddon

Ross,

I'm very much looking forward to getting your 'stance' as you're an excellent chap... and I'm not saying that just because I'm stoned...

And I detest Calvanism. I live in the Netherlands for Pete's sake! The south is quite RC and humanist, the north is very humanist and there are little Calvanistic ghettos... but the tone of Calvanism, the slightly austere attitude, is still very evident in Dutch life.

There's also this pragmatic attitude to personal liberty if it doesn't harm anyone else, as nicely exemplified by my spliff of SIlver Star, a rather nice Sativa.

Forecast was snow but it rained. My girlfriend had a concert in Antwerp and I had to work late, she's on her way back thus my unusual evening prescence. It's bloody cold.

Take care

Gyles

LittleToe

Gyles:
I have a friend who has just moved to Ureterp (he's of shamanic persuasion).
He was telling me a little of the local religious flavour - LOL.

I don't know if it's going to be possible, but I'd like to meet up with him some time this year (he's spent the last two years or so in Arizona).

There's also this pragmatic attitude to personal liberty if it doesn't harm anyone else, as nicely exemplified by my spliff of SIlver Star, a rather nice Sativa.

"You lucky, lucky b*st*rd!!!"

Abaddon

LT: Chances of me getting to Scotland are near nil for a few years, so if you are in the NL, let me know, I'd love to meet up and get you well and truely mullered.

IronGland

Bradley:It's just my 2p, but I suspect you are big on head-learning , but short on experience.

Yeah,Bradley. Quit with that high falutin' head learnin and accept the sweet sweet embrace of JESUS.

Love_Truth

First, you need to ask your self who deserves the ?thank you?, the one who died for us, or the ones he died for (including those who put him to death):

There once was a bridge that spanned a large river. During most of the day the bridge sat with its length running up and down the river paralleled with the banks, allowing ships to pass through freely on both sides of the bridge. But at certain times each day, a train would come along and the bridge would be turned sideways across the river, allowing a train to cross it.

A switchman sat in a small shack on one side of the river where he operated the controls to turn the bridge and lock it into place as the train crossed. One evening, as the switchman was waiting for the last train of the day to come, he looked off into the distance through the dimming twilight and caught
sight of the train lights. He stepped to the control and waited until the train was within a prescribed distance when he was to turn the bridge. He turned the bridge into position, but, to his horror, he found the locking control did not work. If the bridge was not securely in position, it would wobble back and forth at the ends when the train came onto it, causing the train to jump the track and go crashing into the river. This would be a passenger train with many people aboard.

He left the bridge turned across the river, and hurried across the bridge to the other side of the river where there was a lever switch he could hold to operate the lock manually. He would have to hold the lever back firmly as the train crossed. He could hear the rumble of the train now, and he took hold of the lever and leaned backward to apply his weight to it, locking the bridge. He kept applying the pressure to keep the mechanism locked. Many lives depended on this man's strength!

Then, coming across the bridge from the direction of his control shack, he heard a sound that made his blood run cold. "Daddy, where are you?" his 4-year old son was crossing the bridge to look for him. His first impulse was to cry out to the child, "Run! Run!" But the train as too close; the tiny
legs would never make it across the bridge in time. The man almost left his lever to run and snatch up his son and carry him to safety. But he realized that he could not get back to the lever. Either the people on the train or his little son must die.

He took a moment to make his decision. The train sped safely and swiftly on its way, and no one aboard was even aware of the tiny broken body thrown mercilessly into the river by the onrushing train. Nor were they aware of the pitiful figure of the sobbing man, still clinging tightly to the locking lever long after the train had passed. They did not see him walking home more slowly than he had ever walked: to tell his wife how their son had brutally died.

Now if you comprehend the emotions which went through this man's heart, you can begin to understand the feelings of our Father in Heaven when He sacrificed His Son to bridge the gap between us and eternal life. Can there be any wonder that He caused the earth to tremble and the skies to darken when His Son died? How does He feel when we speed along through life without giving a single thought to what was done for us through Jesus Christ?

Those of us who believe and appreciate his sacrifice for us say our "thank you" to Him, not those humans responsible for His death, who were imperfect, (just as we are) and able to apply his Ransom sacrifice, if they would only put their faith in Him.

JamesThomas

Now if you comprehend the emotions which went through this man's heart, you can begin to understand the feelings of our Father in Heaven when He sacrificed His Son to bridge the gap between us and eternal life. Can there be any wonder that He caused the earth to tremble and the skies to darken when His Son died? How does He feel when we speed along through life without giving a single thought to what was done for us through Jesus Christ?

This story is sweet in relation to Jesus, only when you leave out the part where the son returns unharmed a few days later, and the part where the father eventually kills most of the people who where on the train for not bowing down to him for his heroic act. The human nature of the story is far more beautiful and loving than the prevailing Christian interpretation of the divine. "Can there be any wonder" why so many cringe at the thought? Most people who cherish the Bible would never accept it if it made their pets out to be as atrocious as the god therein. j

frankiespeakin

I don't think Jesus had to die to save the world.

He may have been an enlightened man who's reputation get distorted way beyond what is acutally true, by over zealeous followers after his death.

And in order to make people beleive they say you must beleive in Jesus or you will go to hell!!!

People are afraid so they beleive.

If Jesus died so Christians can be saved......

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