Visit From Elders

by laurelin 66 Replies latest jw experiences

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  somebody

  hence including "persons having to do with the publication of the information" ?

  Funny how the WT didn't use the term the "God's ONLY channel of communication " or the 'faithful and discreet slave" either. I'll have to go back and read if they ever used the term 'the Society"when supposedly "took resposnibilty".

  laurelin,

  i'm happy that you had to understanding elders and I'm thankful that your husband was present. Please be aware that if those elders discuss what was said during the visit with a PO or DO, it may not be left alone. The elders may be back to ask you the dreaded question. Which i'm sure will not be worded as follows...

  Do you believe that the persons having to do with the publication of the information are the only channel God is using for communication?

  peace,

  gwen
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  freedom96

  I believe anything worth believing in, must be able to withstand the pros and cons. As you go through all the teachings of the WTS, they have not always held up. They don't want you looking at the cons, because there is just too much there.

  One point mentioned that particularly made me stop and post back, is about the preaching work. For all the effort that the WTS puts towards going door to door, the return is very little. The facts are that most newly baptized witnesses are children brought up as witnesses. That is factual. Very, very few are ones that were found at the door.

  Another undeniable fact, is that there are many, many other churches out there, that attract new members, and spread the word of the bible and Christ. All one has to do is look at some other churches, and check out their ministry, and their numbers blow away the witnesses. The WTS is not the sole religion out there. The churches may not go door to door, but their success rates are much higher.

  Jesus taught love, and forgiveness, something the WTS has a hard time with. They must make you believe everything they teach, or you are out, and you lose all your friends and family.

  Not to say that there are not sincere witnesses and elders out there, who have compassion and love in their hearts. But they are the exception.

  If you have not read Crisis of Concience yet, I strongly encourage you to do so. This was written by an member of the governing body. This book, written with love and compassion, is enough to realize that what we all believed in for so long, is not the answer.
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  Mulan

  Laurelin, you got two very liberal elders I think. Compare your experience to experiences others have had here...........there was one last week (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/67382/1048769/post.ashx#1048769) where the elders don't listen and aren't interested in anything but proving you wrong, and are not liberal at all. Do you think all elders in the WTS are like the two you talked to or are most of them like the ones all of us have had experiences with? Just because they didn't argue with you doesn't mean they didn't walk away terribly concerned about your "apostacy" and discussing how to deal with you.

  Something to think about.
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  Carmel

  Laurelin,

  While it is not my mission to get into JW doctrin, been there done that, I wish to take exception to a conclusion you have drawn that is constantly taught by the JWs that is TOTALLY false. That being that love within the JWs is unique and no other organization has it. Believe me, this is totally FALSE. Their drumbeat of claiming they are unique in their unity and love is the furtherest thing from the truth. It is a controling mechinism that I personally have experianced and have become more aware of the longer I am away from it. Controling members by instilling guilt and fear and social coersion is not love. Constant coersion to conform is a perversion of the human spirit which destroys our individual dignity and is the furtherest thing from love. I can only relate to you that I have personally experianced the controling when I was a JW, and have investigated many other religions and groups that manage to have a social relationship that is not based on having to control the behavior and thought processes of others. As long as you are unaware of how genuine and loving people of many walks of life and belief systems can be, you will be subject to one of the big lies of the JWs, that they are some how better than the rest of the world.

  It just ain't so.

  Best of regards with your situation.

  carmel
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  Celia

  Sorry, I must have posted my answer at the same time as Zev, sorry for the repetition !

  "If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." In saying "anyone," The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.

  Hypocrites ! "Persons having to do with the publication of the information... ." The Governing Body or at least the Writing Committee overseer must have read the articles before they would be accepted for publication in the WT magazine.... The leadership is solely responsible for the builup of expectations....
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  FreeWilly

  Laurelin,

  I wanted to comment on this point.

  THE PREACHING WORK

  It is true that JW's are noted for their door-knocking work. Mormons are also visible in this type of preacing, and to a lesser extent, some protestant churches have done some canvassing too. However, it should be noted that the example in the Bible is different. Christians were dispatched to preach in town square and other public centers, and appeal to groups of people. The epistle are full of such examples. Individual homes were used as "house churches" where interested people gathered for further discussions. The house to house canvassing work was not used. This is most likely because it is so ineffective. There was not literature to give householders. Most Christians did not have a personal Bible (scrolls). Christians were also very small in numbers in the first century so the explosive growth that followed was a result of group teaching.

  This pattern of teaching to crowds and meeting to teach multitudes is still practiced today by every? Christian religion. If you turn on the radio you hear preaching. The same goes for the TV. People at the beach hand out pamphlets. Revivals and 'crusades' are highly publicised. Churches erect sign enticing interested people to come listen.

  In my opinion preaching is EVERYWHERE! JW's growth is stagnant - about equal to population growth in most places.
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  DIM

  I remember being at the crossroads.....here's what I think

  They try and get people into the religion, using people as one of the factors - "Look at the love of the friends..."..then when you have problems with the "loving" people they say "we are imperfect and all make mistakes"....an answer for everything...

  For the record, I grew up in "the truth", was on the fast track to being an MS when I moved 3000 miles away to Seattle. Other than my parents, NOT ONE person has called to ask about us. They just tell nasty rumours and gossip about us. IT ISN'T THE TRUTH.
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  Nadsam

  Hi, I would just like to put another spin on your predicamint and ask you to think of the following as something more than the almost technical scriptural versus WT analysis route. You no doubt reached this point due to that nagging doubt you have and would feel justified leaving if the technical "word" was evidence enough.

  In making my point, please consider what "real" freedom from the WT means :

  • Freedom of association
  • Freedom of thought
  • Freedom of speech etc etc

  You can never have freedom living in a state of fear of reprisal or punishment for basic human rights.

  Please try to look beyond the trap of the technical scripture approach versus the WT back up doctrine plan etc. In most courts of law, lawyers can battle for days or months on the technicality of a word...in your case it can be easier. Look at what the WT has done to your life and the lives of countless others. They have created a state fo fear like the middle ages , even worse the dark ages where everyone who doesn't agree will be burnt at the stake !

  Make a clean start by making a clean break.You'll never look back .....and if you do it will no doubt be to want to help those trapped in the same "quick sand" you were in.. and also to thank those on forums like these that helped you see that there was more to life than service and slavery.

  I hope that in trying to find the "evidence" for leaving you will please consider the overwhelming "opportunities" that await you.

  Nadsam.
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  Poztate

  Hi Laurelin,

  They sat down, and told me straight away that there was nothing I could say or ask that would hurt me. I asked them outright that was there anything I could say to them that would get me marked or disfellowshipped for being apostate and they replied no.

  I am afraid I find this statement very hard to believe.

  The number one duty of the elders is not to shepherd the flock but to protect the organization.You MAY have gotten away with this one candid talk with these two elders if in fact they are "liberal" However if in fact you talk to even one more person about these matters and it comes to the attention of the elders you will be DF'ed so fast you will wonder what happened.There is no second chance when it comes to "apostate beliefs"

  I am not a believer in friendly,liberal elders

  POZ
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  laurelin

  Thank you so much for your replies everyone.

  As usual the response always staggers me!

  You've all given me a lot to think about and I need to research some more but somethings that have been said have already struck a cord or two.

  I appreciate your words about love Yeru and Carmel and I hope I didn't offend either of you by my words. I should have clarified how I feel they are unique in love... sorry. You're right. On a social level there are a lot of people out there that do a darned sight more than witnesses do for other people. And it's insulting to say that only the Witnesses display love. (Because frankly, sometimes that love is rather markedly lacking!)

  And what the Catholics and indeed other religions have accomplished in regards of hospitals and the such is simply amazing and is surely nothing short of the highest form love for neighbour. I have deep admiration for people like the Red Cross that will sacrifice their entire lives to help other people.

  Where I feel the JW's are unique is that they will not go to war against each other or indeed anyone else. You'll get a catholic killing a catholic and there are some horrendous things done in Ethnic Cleansing' where one religion tries to stamp out another but you never get one JW try to kill another.

  I'm not certain I'm getting across what I'm trying to say. No offence to anyone is meant in any way. Sorry.

  As for using fear to install. This is a very valid point that has niggled at me for a long time.

  I am going to try and get my hands on those books that you all told me about. Thank you very much.

  I also think it's interesting your points of the elders being unique.... I rather think they are too. But having said that, they also seem to be the most 'on the ball' ones in our cong. Half of them are so out of touch it's unbelievable.

  I've just re-read my earlier post and this one and I really think that my mind is already made up. Leave it. I think I just need to get the courage up to actually make the move to get away.

  Thanks again for all your help.