Do you really know what you believe? (page 2)

wednesday

When I was a child, i believed if u said "twinkle twinkle little star..." and so on and wished on the star, it would come true. When i learned about jehovah, i just subsituted him for the star. Now that i have had my eyes opened, so to speak, i feel so let down. How could anyone have deceived me into believing a star could grant a wish? How could i have just transferred that belief over to Jehovah? But this is why so many jws believe, sort of magical thinking. I still pray, but it is not magical thinking that so many JWS fall prey to.

Narkissos

One of the most intelligent approaches I have read on the subject. Reminds me of an old essay by French historian Paul Veyne, Did the Greek really believe in their myths? Is it available online?

Satanus

Interesting subject. Meditation reveals all kinds of crap that the average person would rather not see. 'Course, others may not be as negative is i. I don't have many beliefs, anymore. Certainly not a system of beliefs. Know yourself and you know god seems like what it has come down to.

I have often searched for info on the source of worship/religion. After humans came onto the scene, wondering through the grasses, stomaches growling, what prompted the the human that first 'worshipped'? Terrence mckenna thinks it was mushroom ingestion that started religion. Hindu writings go on about soma, and hinduism is the oldest religion, to my understanding.

Yeru

We hold one belief in common.

SS

Love_Truth

Lots of ways to answer that.

First, is it possible to know anything? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, the answer is yes.

Then I hold beliefs I know to be true, (yes)

and,

I hold beliefs I think to be true, a conclusion based on observable evidence, leading to knowledge, or "knowing". (another yes)

Second, do I know what I believe, in the sense that I have knowledge of my beliefs to the extent that I am currently convinced of them? (Still another yes.)

Third, if we assume that all knowledge is opinion, or conclusions based on observable (and non-observable) evidence, leading to a philosophy, or understanding of the "way things are", then we have knowledge, and in that sense we "know".

That's why I often state that we all believe, or have faith, in something(s), whether we be theist or atheist. In the general terms, all belief systems are "religions". Everyone has a belief system, or philosophy, and places a certain amount of faith in that philosophy.

jst2laws

Have you ever debated with a religious person, listened to their defense of their teaching and felt like saying, "you don't really believe that, do you?" Sometimes I think we feel compelled only to belong to something and support it's creed. Most of us bought into the JW creed and though we supported and defended the teachings I admit I never bought into all of them. Now having left and wondering, perhaps for the first time, 'WHAT EXACTLY DO I BELIEVE' I occasionally have to face the reality that I have hung on to things I do not believe, but I have hung on for fear of lack of belief. I once shocked myself and a friend by stating that I'm an Atheist if belief means I have to accept an anthropomorphic sky daddy god. I supposed I was shocked because I finally faced the reality of my belief, or non belief. Good article and great post, Leolaia. Yeru and SS, regarding coffee

Yeru
We hold one belief in common.
SS

Well, I hope this doesn't make me a Catholic, but tomorrow morning I intend to engage in the ritualistic worship of the coffee pot. In this I DO believe. Steve

Phantom Stranger

What I believe I believe in rainbows, and puppy dogs and fairy tales. And I believe
in the family: Mom, and Dad, and Grandma, and Uncle Todd, who waves
his penis.

And I believe in 8 of the Ten Commandments, and I believe in going to
church every Sunday...unless there's a game on.

And I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, wholesome, and
natural things... that money can buy.

And I believe it's derogatory to refer to a woman's breasts as "boobs",
"jugs", "winnebagos", or "golden bozos". And you should only refer to
them as "hooters".

And I believe you should place a woman on a pedestal, high enough so
you can look up her dress.

And I believe in equality, equality for everyone, no matter how stupid
they are, or how much better I am than they are.

And people say I'm crazy for believing this, but I believe that robots
are stealing my luggage.

And I believe I made a mistake when I bought a 30-story, one-bedroom
apartment.

And I believe that the "Battle of the Network Stars" should be fought
with guns.

And I believe that Ronald Reagan can make this country what it once
was: an arctic region, covered with ice.

And I believe the United States should allow all foreigners in this country,
provided they can speak our native language: Apache.

Steve Martin

jst2laws

hey now,

I believe that was a good one Phantom.

I believe Aspercreme should go on a himeroid,

Unless your'e a woman, then it should go on your asteriod.

I believe a histerictomy is the removal of a man's uterous, which is rare.

A more appropriate removal of a woman's uterous should be called a hersterictomy

And I am not open to challenge of my beliefs. Some things are sacred. (including my speling)

Steve

onacruse

Exactly. And you make a good point....unless a Witness was born in the trooth and totally isolated from the wider culture, it is hard for the witness to really, deep down, disassociate their thinking process from such deeply ingrained concepts as a soul or internal selfhood that unique to you. It's not like the witnesses have their own radically different worldview that causes them to see the world in a FUNDAMENTALLY different way from those in the wider society. I'm not talking about conscious beliefs but such subconscious things like how to perceive time and space in the natural world, whether one has a concept of a self or has identity without selfhood, etc.

You leave this db, and I'll personally hunt you down and kill you. LOLOL

What I believe, I believe because I believe it. No other explanation is necessary.

Pistos.

A Paduan

To know is cognition of belief for me - I may not have into cognition what I believe, but when I do, I know this, as I believe this.

Were this not the case, I could be astray, in lie perhaps, especially if I could not identify with what I believe. But if it were that I did not believe something, how could I 'know' something , without being a lie or yearning in hope? Even then one may "believe against hope" (Abraham) and have faith in what is good, and so act - "it was reckoned to him as righteousness".

I find out what it is I believe when I know, as I live - "let your yes be yes and your no be no".

peacefulpete

Thanks for the article Leolaia. When I first began reading about the biology of belief I sensed that my own mind was being exposed/betrayed. That is an earie sensation. The brain largely works below the conscious level, and analysing the process with our rational mind makes our very person appear surreal. There is good reason our inference systems perform unconsciously, they are only effective motivators when we do not analyse the pleasure and pain (emotions). The power of the reward centers of the brain is diminished the minute we understand them to be a chemical process evolved for the survival of the species. The role of the higher mental powers then becomes much more important. These skills however need to be trained, and unfortunately without recognizing the need for this training most people depend too much upon what's called intuition or common sense, which is little more than biological reflex.

Religiosity is not a defect of the brain it is simply a side effect of humans having inference systems disconnected from the more recently evolved rational mind.

Do you really know what you believe?

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