Heb. 1:6 (even in the NWT !) shows Jesus not to be an angel, but Jehovah

hooberus

For the sake of argument lets assume that the current NWT is correct in rendering proskuneo as "obesiance"

"But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: 'And let all God's angels do obeisance to him" Hebrews 1:6 The New World Translation.

1. If all (as in 100%) of the angels of God do obeisance to him, then He could not be an angel. All (as in 100%) must include Michael. Russell agreed with this.

"...His position is contrasted with that of men and angels, as he is Lord of both, having ?all power in heaven and earth.? Hence it is said, ?Let all the angels of God worship him? [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God; and the reason is,] because he has ?by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they.? . . . " Zion?s Watchtower and Herald of Christ?s Presence, 1879, page 48

2. Psalm 97:7 in the NWT is footnoted to Hebrews 1:6.

"Jehovah . . . bow down to him all YOU gods." Psalm 97:7 (footnoted to Hebrews 1:6)

Even if proskuneo means primarily "bowing down" the deity of Jesus is still estabished even in the NWT since a passage about all the angels bowing down to Jehovah (Psalm 97:7) is directly referenced to Jesus! Psalm 97:7 is a verse about all bowing down to Jehovah, not a verse about all "other" angels/gods bowing down to an "archangel."

3. Hebrews 1:6 in the NWT is referenced to Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX

"Be glad, O heavens, together with him, and let all the angels of God worship him. Be glad, you nations, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him . . . " Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX

Even if one translates Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX as "obesiance" or "bowing down" (instead of worship) the deity of Jesus is still established since Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX is a verse about all the angels of God bowing down to Jehovah! It is not a verse about all "other" angels bowing down to an archangel.

Conclusion: Hebrews 1:6 (even in the NWT) is a strong affirmation of the deity of Jesus Christ, and definitely shows Him not to be one of the angels.

A Paduan

If you point it out to them they might put it on the backburner and look into it when they come to reprint their bible - they realise that Paul must have made mistakes and would need corrections - after all, they are the divine channellers of the whole earth.

hooberus

Jehovahs Witnesses will probably admit that the context of both Psalm 97:7 and Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX is that of all (as in 100%) of the angels (including Michael) bowing down to Jehovah. However, when these verses are applied to Jesus in Hebrews 1:6 something remarkable happens according to the die-hard witnesses:

all of the sudden "all" (as in 100%) of the angels changes to become 99.99999% of the angels bowing down, hense "all" no longer means "all"
these angels are no longer bowing down to Jehovah in the context (as they were in Psalm 97:7 and Deut 32:43 LXX)
these angels are now bowing down to another angel (an archangel)
Micheal the archangel "switches" sides from being one of those who bowed down to Jehovah in Psalm 97:7 and Deuteronomy 32:43LXX to the other side (that of the side being bow down to) !

Is this a proper way to interpret scriptures?

Love_Truth

I have a problem with all such conclusions. Why?

If a member of a tribe rises to the position of chief, and the statement is made, "Let all of the tribesmen" bow and do obeisance to the chief, does that make the chief not a tribesman?

Of course not.

I rest my case.

It's the same silly argument that has been put forth about Jesus not being able to be both a mediator and a spirit creature, because a Scripture says he was "a man, Christ Jesus". There's many more examples of this sort of faulty reasoning.

Sorry, I fail to see anything but extremely poor logic in such arguments.

Love_Truth- that's my two cents.

hooberus

If a member of a tribe rises to the position of chief, and the statement is made, "Let all of the tribesmen" bow and do obeisance to the chief, does that make the chief not a tribesman?

What if a member of a tribe directly applied (to a specific being who had walked among them, and ascended to heaven) a quote from an ancient scripture which said "Let all of the tribesman bow to the the Moon God" and commanded all the tribesman to bow to the one who ascended?

What would the member be saying of the one who he applied the scripture to?

hooberus

Also, in the hypothetical ancient scripture quote: "Let all of the tribesman bow to the the Moon God" The word "all" surley means 100% of the tribesman.

Love_Truth

With the obvious exception of the one being bowed down to- but he's still a tribesman (just more prominent than those bowing).

hooberus

With the obvious exception of the one being bowed down to- but he's still a tribesman (just more prominent than those bowing).

Was is a tibesman being bowed down to (just more prominent than those bowing) in the hypothetical ancient scripture "Let all of the tribesman bow to the the Moon God" ? . . . . NO, it was the Moon God being bowed down to by all (as in 100%) of the tribesman. The phrase "Let all of the tribesman bow to the Moon God" is not about a prominent tribesman being bowed down to by less prominent tribesman. Likewise, was it an angel being bowed down to (just more prominent than those bowing) in Psalm 97:7 and Deuteronomy 32:43LXX ? . . . NO, it was Jehovah God being bowed to by all (as in 100%) of the angels. Thus Jehovah is not an angel. Hebrews 1:6 is a quote from Pslam 97:7. and/ or Deuteronomy 32:43. Psalm 97:7 and Deuteronomy 32:43 are about "all" (as in 100%) of the angels bowing down to Jehovah God. Psalm 97:7 and Deuteronomy 32:43 are not about angels bowing down to a more prominent angel.

dustyb

hoob, thats a basic (and kinda ridiculous arguement) for Jesus being God almighty. If you were Jehovah's only true creation, would you not also allow your only creation to be worshipped? especially when he's your son

hooberus

"Jehovah . . . bow down to him all YOU gods." Psalm 97:7 NWT

Who is being bowed down to in Psalm 97:7 NWT ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jehovah or a creature?

"Be glad, O heavens, together with him, and let all the angels of God worship him. Be glad, you nations, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him . . . " Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX

Who is being worshiped in Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Jehovah or a creature?

Heb. 1:6 (even in the NWT !) shows Jesus not to be an angel, but Jehovah

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