Were you ever a Conscientious Objector ?

by Nadsam 24 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    nathan natas said:

    : Like Franklin J (above) I am in the USA. I was eligible for the draft when I turned 18. Having been raised a JW, I claimed that I was a conscientious objector and a minister (I was pioneering - 100 hours/month selling WTS literature from door-to-door). I very honestly expected to have to go to jail, but my local draft board granted me my ministerial deferment - I had no punishment to bear, just keep up "the good work."

    Unlike Nathan, I paid the price. I pioneered for over three years before I got my "1A" That meant you were toast, you were just drafted. I appealed for a "4D". This was the Holy Grail in dubland: you were considered a "Minister" and thus draft exempt. I received a "CO" "exemption instead. This meant I was a Concientious Objector, and I was therefore obligated to do my part with civilian work, i.e. "alternative military service." According to the holy laws of the Watchtower Corporation, such service was a "compromise" and thus wrong. (They have since changed this shit.) Therefore, I was sentenced to two years in the Federal Penal system, suspended upon my completing two years voluntary service, which was the SAME thing they offered me in the first place (without the felony conviction, though.) I had to report to a Federal Cop every month for two years and report what I did.

    According to Freddie Franz: "You must do the time or face the consequences and deny all other offers. This shows your have not "compromised" yourself before the mighty Jehovah. However, if you do EXACTLY the same thing after you are convicted of a felony, and a Judge orders that as your sentence, you have not compromised your "integrity." To this day, I do not see the difference. If we were really not to compromise ourselves, then WHY would it be OK to do something some Judge rules, but NOT OK to do the same DAMN thing the military people said was fine and dandy?

    Military says: "dude, we ask you to help people in hospitals."

    Dub says to military: "No can do."

    Military says: "Why not?"

    Dub replies: "Because we can't."

    Military says: "Why can't you?"

    Dub says: "I'm not sure, really?"

    Military says; "Ok then, well prosecute you."

    Dub says: "Ok."

    Judge says (in the trial): "You're guilty. We will suspend that sentence if you will help people in hospitals. Is that ok with you?

    Dub says: "yes. that is ok with me. I will be happy to do that."

    Judge says: "but wasn't that the same offer the military made to you before this trial and your sentence?"

    Dub says: Well, yes.

    Judge says: "So, then, what's the difference?"

    Dub says: I didn't "compromise on that one.

    Judge says: "But your sentence is the SAME thing that was offered you before your were charged and convicted and sentenced!"

    Dub says: "I didn't compromise" (without knowing that this idiocy was part of Watchtower LAW back then.

    I know. I was that dub. This nonsense happened to me. Really.

    I did my two years time, and I'm thankful to Jehovah that he had his "slave" to protect me through those two precious years of my youth that I lost. I'm also thankful to the "slave" that "Jehovah" later revealed to them that, after all, alternative military service was ok, and one didn't need to to first be convicted of a felony to do it.

    FUCK YOU, Watchtower LIARS and charletans. You live in your ivory towers and you dictate our lives and ruin our destinies and you don't give a rat. FUCK YOU, Watchtower liars!

    (Don't edit this, moddies! This is a major issue for me, and one that hurt me a lot)

    Sorry, folks. Unless you walked in my shoes, you wouldn't know how much this hurt me.

    Farkel

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Farkel,

    I don't really know you, but, your stature just went way up with me...I too, expected to go to prison with the felony conviction to follow me the rest of my life. I have a job that I could not have, if I'd had a felony. I know you know far more than I how this can affect you. I am so sorry for what you went thru. It 'almost' happened to me...and just a few hours ago, Nathan, made his post about 'now Alternative Service is OK'. It's SAD how, when they DO change something it's done quietly, with no fanfare.

    I hope in this case, the 'F' word is not edited. I fully understand your fury...

    As I said in my other post...the WTS can F*** your life totally -- then have absolutely NO LOYALTY to the R & F JW's. Not even the common 'Courtesy' to at least say, "We're sorry, WE WERE WRONG !"

    This is an insidious religion...I am furious, too.

  • Nadsam
  • Nadsam
    Nadsam

    Thanks for all the sharing on this thread so far and also for the kind words expressed to me.

    Farkel, a specila thanks to you for being brave enough to say what we all think !

    The WTBTS has definitely made life truly difficult for many. In the past I used to argue a lot with my JW Family members (just prior to my exit) regarding nutrality and when do you fight and when do you oppose,but there's just no reasoning with insanity. If a cause is just and moral, is it really possible to sit on the sideline and not have a position ? I've heard so many JW's who have political opinions but oh no they would never vote or fight for their country.

    Many of my Family members fled South Africa during our period of War . Nearly all are still strong JW's but one of my cousins who is living in the United States was so overwhelmed by 9-11 that he to quit the JW Cult and is now a Proud US Marine serving in Iraq.

    I am very proud of him for fighting for our freedom and Democracy and making the world a safer place.If it was possible for me to join up I would be right alongside him.

    Peace to you all.

    Nadsam

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    (((((Farkel))))) (((((Nadsam))))) Thank you both for sharing those most painful memories with us.

    Love,

    Nina

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    (Don't edit this, moddies! This is a major issue for me, and one that hurt me a lot)

    Wouldn't dream of doing so. You've got a right to be angry and I can't blame you.

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    Question for Farkel, if it's not too personal... when you speak of being hurt by the position the WTS required of you, are you referring to emotional pain, or to the practical effects of a felony conviction?

  • donkey
    donkey
    To this day I suffer from depression, nightmares and post traumatic stress disorder

    I still suffer too. I have ongoing health issues with my lungs, psychological disorders related to food (or rather the lack thereof) and 20 years later I still have some pretty awful nightmares. In many respects I learned what it is like to be an animal...

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    I went CO in Oz, but returned to NZ a few days before the court case. They would never have believed me anyway. Not baptised, not preaching, lost drivers licence with way too many points. Was going to have a haircut and shave off my beard, but I didn't think that was going to convince them.

    The draft was dropped in NZ before they caught up with me here, I hadn't registered and they hadn't clicked that I was back, so I got away with it.

    My father was locked up as a CO during WW2.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Euphemism,

    : Question for Farkel, if it's not too personal... when you speak of being hurt by the position the WTS required of you, are you referring to emotional pain, or to the practical effects of a felony conviction?

    The emotional pain consisted of the fear of WHEN the FBI was going to appear to arrest me, the natural fear of being interrogated by FBI agents, being booked and treated as a criminal during that process. Also, being the ONLY person among several hundred who refused to "step over the line" at the end of my military physical. The Sargeant who dealt with me when I refused to step over that line did everything but call me a traitor. I was terrified that some of the other guys might gang up on me when I left the building. My trial and sentencing was no cakewalk, either.

    I was hurt in other ways, too. Two years of my very young life were lost. I could have earned 1/2 a college degree in that period, but instead had to work 8 hours per day, 5 days per week for free doing Community service.

    I forgot to mention that I later received a full and unconditional pardon from President Gerald R. Ford because I HAD completed two years of Community service.

    Whenever I filled out any documents that asked if I had ever been convicted of a felony, I have always answered "yes" and then explained what happened.

    Someone recently told me that since I had a pardon from the President of the United States the conviction must be viewed as if it never happened. If that is the case, then from now on, I could answer "no" and not be lying.

    Does anyone know if that pardon information I received is correct?

    By the way, what I went through was NOTHING compared with what Donkey went through. His ordeal was a horror story so great that I'm almost embarrassed to make a fuss over mine. Perhaps some day he might share it. It's not for the quesy or faint-hearted.

    Farkel

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit