by UnDisfellowshipped 287 Replies latest watchtower bible
Yada yada yada!!!
If I could bother my ass, I could find a number of threads where you've posted these pics before.
This kind of spamming is getting so old...
Shall we cut to the chase and just start the personal insults now?
That's the usual model, right?
(Incidentally, your cartoon of God replying "No!" to the Trinitarian's request "God, are you a Trinity?" is putting words in "His" mouth. I didn't think you went for extrabiblical proclamations)
awareness that Jesus was more than I had been taught.
Why does this sort of awareness happen? What do you do with this feeling?
This awareness/feeling of Christ starts to erode mans forced feeding of Jesus position.
Merely my Calvinstic .02
Are you saying then that it is possible to become a Christian without understanding the Trinity Doctrine? I am sure that you will agree that in order to believe this Doctrine it is necessary to understand it?
Twenty years after the Org while still holding most of Jw doctrine, I found myself wanting to know what the Org really taught which lead to reading the Bible "un-aided" then being "born again" while having this feeling of born again I struggled greatly with Jesus/God issue, but as I grew as a Christian and studying the Bible became a daily passion one starts to understand what the Bible presents to you. Or what the Bible teaches while not contradicting itself.
How are we as created going to figure out the creator who spoke the universe into existence?
I dont try and sell the trinity, whats the point? Ultimately one has to do something with Jesus. And that is always where trinity talk leads to "what to do with Jesus" Which than becomes very offensive to people, almost a "pharasical" response, ironic isnt it?
E
LT, you say:
I suspect this is exactly why Jesus never "went there", rather he simply said "Follow me" (which implies a little more than just doing what he did - it implies relationship, IMHO).
(IYHO) it would appear that understanding and accepting the Trinity Doctrine is not crucial to "the relationship" and therefore to personal salvation. In which case why is it such an emotive issue to a number of people on this DB? Am I missing something?
link
Link:
The Trinity is not unreasonable; it is simply beyond reason. If this is the only thing in life that you can't understand, you're doing quite well. Trinitarians accept it because they believe it is revealed in Scripture not because they totally comprehend it.
Herk,
Anti-Trinitarians study pagan religions to find triads. Surely, than, you must have come across dwinities (like the two-faced god Janus), and even a hundred-headed god (Typhon). Consider one of the three-headed god diagrams above that has FOUR ARMS. If 3 heads are significant, what about the four arms? Consider the triad Brahma, Siva and Vishnu. One of the gods (Brahma) has five heads!
If the Trinity is pagan because pagans have "trinities" than what happens to other beliefs that pagans hold in common with Christians: Creation stories (like the Gilgamesh Epic); the Flood story; virgin births; incarnations; baptism; Lord's Supper; the Ascension, etc.? By your reasoning shouldn't they, too, be abandoned? If not, why not? And, of course, there is always the question of who borrowed from whom.
Ellderwho:
That's why I can see "Irresistable Grace" from an experiential perspective.
...I struggled greatly with Jesus/God issue, but as I grew as a Christian and studying the Bible became a daily passion one starts to understand what the Bible presents to you. Or what the Bible teaches while not contradicting itself.
My experience was similar.
I'll iterate the steps I went though, after "conversion" (albeit in very simple form, and in accord with my poor memory):
I'm also in broad agreement with the Doctrine of the Tri-Part man.
You might want to ask Herk if he's been "born-again", or had an encounter with the "Holy Spirit". Last time I badgered him about that he declined to answer, in his own inimicable style.
Link:My understanding (which I believe is supported by experimental faith) is that once we come into that relationship, the "Holy Spirit" then gradually enlightens the mind.
For that purpose, I often state that things are my "current" position.
I believe it's an emotive issue because people stop applying "love", tolerance, and understanding.
IMHO it is the immature believer that cannot accept that others are just at a different point on the road from themselves. For that reason we can hopefully forgive them their piques of fit (as hopefully I am forgiven for mine - for I am but a "lamb" on the weary path).
Another reason might be that some never had such "Spirit" in the first place
One popular misconception (again IMHO) is that Heb.4:12 only refers to the written "word", AKA the bible, rather than the "Word", or Christ. I'll leave you to make the connection.
This is precisely my problem
Kenneson says:
Trinitarians accept it because they believe it is revealed in Scripture not because they totally comprehend it.
My JW Study conductor said:
Jehovah’s Witnesses accept it as the "truth" because they believe it is revealed in Scripture not because they totally comprehend it.
I say: I am sorry, but if I don’t totally comprehend scriptural doctrine, I do not believe it just because everyone else says I should because they do.
link
Mat 19:26
But Jesus looked on them and said to them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Mat 19:26
But Jesus looked on them and said to them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Link:
I say: I am sorry, but if I don?t totally comprehend scriptural doctrine, I do not believe it just because everyone else says I should because they do.
Good for you.
It's a personal journey - don't take any crap from any end of the spectrum of belief!!!
I believe that God can be "understood" but not "comprehended", in that if "He" truly is beyond time and space, how can we truly get our minds around that?
