All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped 287 Replies latest watchtower bible

ellderwho

Revelation 2: 21-22 (NKJV): And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

Nasb:
22 `Behold, I will throw her on F23 a bed of sickness, and those who commit R132 adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her F24 deeds. 23 `And I will kill her children with pestilence, F25 and all the churches will know that I am He who searches R133 the minds F26 and hearts; and I R134 will give to each one of you according to your deeds.
Jesus said that He had given someone "time to repent", but that she "did not repent", and that "unless they repent", He was going to destroy them. What does that mean?
The "she" your referring to is Jezebel.
Lets look at Gods punishment pronounced upon her in 1Kings 22:23;

"Of Jezebel also has the LORD spoken, saying, 'The dogs will eat Jezebel in the district of Jezreel.'
2Kings 9:30-37
30 When Jehu came to Jezreel, Jezebel heard {of it,} and she R262 painted her eyes and adorned her head and looked out the window. 31 As Jehu entered the gate, she said, " R263 Is it well, F122 Zimri, your F123 master's murderer?" 32 Then he lifted up his face to the window and said, "Who is on my side? Who?" And two or three officials looked down at him. 33 He said, "Throw her down." So they threw her down, and some of her blood was sprinkled on the wall and on the horses, and he trampled her under foot. 34 When he came in, he ate and drank; and he said, "See now to this R264 cursed woman and bury her, for she R265 is a king's daughter." 35 They went to bury her, but they found nothing more of her than the skull and the feet and the palms of her hands. 36 Therefore they returned and told him. And he said, "This is the word of the LORD, which He spoke by His servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, ' R266 In the property F124 of Jezreel the dogs shall eat the flesh of Jezebel; 37 and the R267 corpse of Jezebel will be as dung on the face of the field in the property F125 of Jezreel, so they cannot say, "This is Jezebel.'""
Undis,
The point your trying to make when alluding to Rev 2:21 is weak. That fact that the verses quoted are referencing the sins of Jezebel (and her deeds, NASB). (her ways NIV) and what she brought in as teachings in the days of King Ahab. 1Kings 21:1-29
In short they where imitating her sins, the way she sinned. Her teachings.
IMHO this in no way indicates that Jesus is giving Jezebel time to repent.
E
UnDisfellowshipped

Ellderwho,
Jesus is said He was giving "Jezebel" time to repent. Whether "Jezebel" is representing other people or not, Jesus was still giving someone "time to repent".
zen nudist

Zen Nudist claimed that the Bible does not teach that God is omnipresent, but here are just a few Verses that do indeed teach that: Psalm 139: 7-10: Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me.

which of course contradicts genesis 18:20-21 where God clearly is NOT in sodom and Gomorrah, but that is no suprize as the bible is riddled with such contradictions and believers have many word tricks they can use to make it say whatever they wish it to say... its also not suprizing that people would make their god as great as they can imagine him to be, as there really is no god that anyone has ever found other than all of us together, people can claim he or she or they are whatever they wish.
as to the specific verse, like so many others, the alternative is that God can be anywhere he wishes and that by his proxies, the angels as he is shown to do in many cases which are reported as God being there himself.... that God is omnipresent, being contradicted by many verses, it seems the more likely view, assuming a god exists at all, is the view that he can be any place he wishes by means of angels but is himself in one location, heaven.
ellderwho

Ellderwho,
Jesus is said He was giving "Jezebel" time to repent. Whether "Jezebel" is representing other people or not, Jesus was still giving someone "time to repent".
Show from scripture where Jezebel is given time to repent. Where in Kings 1 or 2 is Jezebel given a "time" to repent?
Whether "Jezebel" is representing other people or not, Jesus was still giving someone "time to repent".
Your reading into context. This is a illustration of people following in the "ways" of how Jezebel "fornicated" scriptural teachings. It has nothing to do with "giving Jezebel time to repent."
Whether "Jezebel" is representing other people or not, Jesus was still giving someone "time to repent".
Now which do you want to address? Jezebel or other people? E
UnDisfellowshipped

Ellderwho,
I really am not sure what you are trying to get at.
I go by the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone.
Here are the very Words of GOD -- JESUS in the Revelation to the Apostle John:
Revelation 2:18-23: "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. How do you explain those Verses? What do they mean?
ellderwho

First their is a reference to Jezebel(her), in the singular, and then a reference to "those who commit" and "if they repent"
The words "they" and "those" are plural.
And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent
You ask me to explain these verses. These were explained previsously.
I go by the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone.
However, Ive asked you to show in scripture where Jezebel is given a time to repent. Since "she" lived in the OT times wouldnt it be appropiate to show from Kings 1 or 2.
Where is it?
Its the same problem you had with Manassehs " choice" when pushed for an answer you just ignored it.
zen nudist

Num 23:19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

God never changes right? God is not a man nor his he THE SON OF MAN
UnDisfellowshipped

Ellderwho said:
However, Ive asked you to show in scripture where Jezebel is given a time to repent. Since "she" lived in the OT times wouldnt it be appropiate to show from Kings 1 or 2.
Where is it?
Its the same problem you had with Manassehs " choice" when pushed for an answer you just ignored it.

Do you not believe the very words of Christ Himself?
Why should I have to "prove" something from the Old Testament that Christ Himself stated that He did?
Christ Jesus could simply have been referring to a 1st Century "Christian" woman as "Jezebel" in the same way that people nowadays sometimes call evil people "Judas" or "Hitler".
Even if He was referring to the Old Testament Jezebel, Jesus very clearly says that He gave her time to repent, unless you are saying that Jesus lied.
About Manasseh:
2nd Chronicles 33:12-13: Now when he was in affliction, he implored the LORD his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers, and prayed to Him; and He received his entreaty, heard his supplication, and brought him back to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD was God.
The Scripture says that after God brought affliction upon Manasseh, Manasseh humbled HIMSELF -- it doesn't say that God humbled him.
ellderwho

Why should I have to "prove" something from the Old Testament that Christ Himself stated that He did?
Just show from scriptures as I've asked you to do. Instead of reading into the text at Rev 2:21 something thats just not there.
Christ Jesus could simply have been referring to a 1st Century "Christian" woman as "Jezebel" in the same way that people nowadays sometimes call evil people "Judas" or "Hitler".

This is your take on Christs' words.
Even if He was referring to the Old Testament Jezebel, Jesus very clearly says that He gave her time to repent,

Again this is your take on Christs' words.
About Manasseh:
2nd Chronicles 33:12-13: Now when he was in affliction, he implored the LORD his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers, and prayed to Him; and He received his entreaty, heard his supplication, and brought him back to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD was God.
Funny how you do not include the quote of scripture, which clearly shows the manner in which Manasseh arrived at this humbled position.
The Scripture says that after God brought affliction upon Manasseh, Manasseh humbled HIMSELF -- it doesn't say that God humbled him.
I ask you again, would Manasseh had a reason to humble himself if it first was not brought upon him by God? E
UnDisfellowshipped

Ellderwho said:
Just show from scriptures as I've asked you to do. Instead of reading into the text at Rev 2:21 something thats just not there.

Ellderwho, what part of Revelation 2:21 do you not understand?
WHOEVER the "Jezebel" is that Jesus is talking about, Jesus undeniably said that He gave her "time to repent" but that "she would not repent."
It does not matter WHO this "Jezebel" is for my argument.
Jesus Christ undeniably stated that He "gave her time to repent". Ellderwho said:
I ask you again, would Manasseh had a reason to humble himself if it first was not brought upon him by God?
You're right on that point. That's what I've been saying all along. The Holy Spirit enlightens and convicts of sin FIRST before a person can repent and believe.

All About The Trinity

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