The hypocrisy Jesus had towards the pharisees and sadducees

by adjusted knowledge 32 Replies latest jw friends

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  Jonathan Drake

  I'm not sure what that means, but my point was that regardless of what we might believe. In this book that man saw all of those things, was given 10 rules by the being who did those things for him and he agreed to follow them. Then he didn't. And he died, which he was told would happen if he broke them. 

  When we break the law today, we go to jail or get a fine. We are told this will happen before it happens. That's why when it does, nobody says, "aw man I didn't know THIS would happen!!" 

  Its no different, except in this case the man was told if he broke the law he'd die lol. It should be noted however, the man had every opportunity to show genuine repentance and he obviously did not. Nobody was ever put to death who repented of their error, whether they were a king or of the common folk.
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  Simon

  There were three primary jewish sects or factions: the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Essenes.

  They were all critical of each other. The Essenes wrote the bible or at least influenced / were aligned with early Christianity (possibly an offshoot) which is why it's full of criticisms of the other two and hardly any mention of them.

  Whatever the rules of the sabbath they were man made and of no real benefit. It's not like slaves got a day off.
• 

  Village Idiot

  "...but my point was that regardless of what we might believe. In this book that man saw all of those things, was given 10 rules by the being who did those things for him and he agreed to follow them."

  What do you believe?

  "Then he didn't. And he died, which he was told would happen if he broke them."  

  To my knowledge not all of the Ten Commandments were enforced with the death penalty. Was the Tenth Commandment, “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” (Exodus 20:17 NIV) , enforced with the death penalty?

  And no, he and those who arrested him were not told that breaking the Sabbath would lead to death as is clearly stated in the previously cited scripture:

  "...and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him." Numbers 15:34 NIV
• 

  Jonathan Drake

  "...but my point was that regardless of what we might believe. In this book that man saw all of those things, was given 10 rules by the being who did those things for him and he agreed to follow them."

  What do you believe?

  "Then he didn't. And he died, which he was told would happen if he broke them."  

  To my knowledge not all of the Ten Commandments were enforced with the death penalty. Was the Tenth Commandment, “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” (Exodus 20:17 NIV) , enforced with the death penalty?

  And no, he and those who arrested him were not told that breaking the Sabbath would lead to death as is clearly stated in the previously cited scripture: 

  "...and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him." Numbers 15:34 NIV

  My beliefs are irrelevant. Either you believe the bible, and thus understand why he was killed. Or you don't, and its a story of a man snubbing an all powerful being and being killed for it. 

  Also, yes, the penalty was proscribed prior to his error.

  Numbers 15:30, 31:

   " 'But anyone who sins defiantly,whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people. Because he has despised the LORD's word and broken his commands, that person must surely be cut off; his guilt remains on him.' "
  Btw, if you want to get real technical about this im willing, because the scripture I've just quoted explains why they didn't know what to do with him. 
• 

  Village Idiot

  "Also, yes, the penalty was proscribed prior to his error."

  That appears to have been for blasphemy but if it was for any commandment why then the ignorance of those who arrested the Sabbath breaker?

  Incidentally, the Ten Commandments were changed drastically in Exodus 34:1 which adds to the confusion. Especially when you take the last - and most absurd - commandment into account (Exodus 34:26b).
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  Jonathan Drake

  @village

  i can see how it appears that way, but it's not a punishment for blaspheme. The statement made is that anyone who sins defiantly has blasphemed. The NASB makes this much clearer by making it, "but the person who does anything defiantly..." So it was considered blaspheme against God to flagarantly disregard gods law, like this man did. 

  i was hoping you'd ask about why they were ignorant as to what to do. So, technically - where the rule was to be, "cut off from his people" was not a death sentence. At this point I know what you're thinking probably, but bear with me. 

  In the book Daily Life in the Times of Jesus, Henri Daniel-Rops makes reference to this phrase and explains that it meant banishment and not death. When the Israelites settled they had cities to which these banished people were sent to live.

  However, they weren't settled in the promised land here, they were in the wilderness. If they banished this man he would effectively die. So they didn't know what to do with him and remanded him into custody, after which God intervened and gave a verdict himself. 

  As to the Ten Commandments, I'll check out what you're referring to and reply in a PM so as to stay on topic.
• 

  Crazyguy

  Jesus contradicts the old testament God a lot and Paul contradicts Jesus, so can one really take the bible seriously??
• 

  adjusted knowledge

  Reading the NT it does seem to be two differing religious opinions: one by Jesus and one by Paul.
  
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  Jonathan Drake

  Do you guys have some examples?
• 

  opusdei1972

  Paul also contradicted the Law.

  
  

  "But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? [that is, to bring Christ down from above] or, who shall descend into the deep? [that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead]. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach....",

  Rom. 10:6-8

   

  Paul mutilated Deut. 30:12-14

   

  "It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it? But the word is very nigh unto thee in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it".

   

  The latter is only saying that his (Moses) commandments are easy to obtain. They are not far off but as close as one's heart or mouth. Deut. says nothing about "faith."

  It refers to seeking "it" and doing "it," not seeking "him" or doing "him."

  It does not even imply Christ or Jesus, let alone mention him.

  Deut. is referring to Penitence and is not about believing on or bringing down Jesus from heaven or up from the dead.

  Deut. is saying that God wills us to repent of sin and that you may know when you have sinned. You have only to look at his law which is very close by.