Mussings on Society

by Yerusalyim 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Yerusalyim

  Atilla,

  You said,

  No offense, but thank goodness school rifle teams are a distant memory, I couldn't imagine attending one of those classes. Then again, I wasn't really allowed to attend any extra classes but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be something involving making a gun stock. The whole picture reminds me of Bowling For Columbine where Moore gets a gun at a bank for opening an account. You see guns and banks and guns and schools just don't mix.

  You've just made my point. Forty years ago we could have rifle teams...at least in rural areas...with no fear of Columbine type incidents. What has happened is my question? I want the good that existed back in the day...along with the good changes we've made since then.
• 

  somebodylovesme

  I should keep my mouth shut. :) And I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but this is how I feel:

  First, you wrote, "...but that the faith of the nation can be freely expressed." There is no "faith" of the nation. This is not a Christian nation. Sorry.

  And as for your comments about gays, abortion, obesity, and implying that poor people are not "helping themselves"...
  
  Standpoint theory in the social sciences argues that we all view the world and make judgments from our standpoints, our perspectives, and our experiences. We can't say what we would do if we were someone else, because we are NOT.

  Are you gay? Are you an ethnic minority? Are you living in true poverty? Have you ever been a 12-year-old pregnant girl? Have you been a single parent in a dangerous neighborhood working two or three jobs to keep a crappy roof over your head? Nope? Me either. I haven't. And so I don't pass judgment or assume I know what it is like to be in those situations. All I'm saying is, it's easy to criticize when you have it easy.

  And guess what? Do some research. There is much, much more to obesity than over-eating. Don't make assumptions.(Nope, I'm not obese, either.)

  That said, I definitely agree with you on a few points: that were are self-possessed consumers ~ I want to move to Canada and live in a socialist democracy with free health care. I am serious. I also agree that we need to encourage community service. Hell, I think we should require it. Selfishness needs to be squashed.

  I also agree that we need to teach sexual morality. It is sad... I am a married college-aged woman, and I receive so much crap for being married from other people my age. It's awful -- they criticize me and ask why I would want to "waste my life" (I am in college and will be attending grad school next year - how is that wasting my life?) by getting married. Yet these people who say that run around, get drunk on the weekends, and have sex with everything that walks - and then brag about it and whine about all the problems it causes. Makes me mad. If you don't want the problems associated with casual polygymous sex, then don't have it. ;)

  See? I'm not ALL evil liberal. ;)

  It's great that we have the freedom to have such public discussions.

  Peace,
  
  SLM
• 

  donkey

  Without commenting on your particular religious views of what a Taliban society (just kidding dude) should be like, I will say I clearly see a collapse of society in the US. I tend to see it as a collapse because it is a house of cards built on massive amounts of consumer and government debt. We will have to pay the piper!! It's just a matter of when...
• 

  itsallgoodnow

  Yes, I can't see how the 12 twinkies you stuff in your face really has anything to do with the collapse of a nation .... I see it as the currently politically correct way of picking on a certain group of people.
• 

  acsot

  And as for your comments about gays, abortion, obesity, and implying that poor people are not "helping themselves"...
  
  Standpoint theory in the social sciences argues that we all view the world and make judgments from our standpoints, our perspectives, and our experiences. We can't say what we would do if we were someone else, because we are NOT.

  Are you gay? Are you an ethnic minority? Are you living in true poverty? Have you ever been a 12-year-old pregnant girl? Have you been a single parent in a dangerous neighborhood working two or three jobs to keep a crappy roof over your head? Nope? Me either. I haven't. And so I don't pass judgment or assume I know what it is like to be in those situations. All I'm saying is, it's easy to criticize when you have it easy.

  And guess what? Do some research. There is much, much more to obesity than over-eating. Don't make assumptions.(Nope, I'm not obese, either.)

  Good points. I like these quotes from A.C. Grayling:

  ?When moralisers attack liberal legislation on homosexuality, abortion, prostitution, censorship, blasphemy, bastardy, and other like matters, it is their way of manifesting hostility to lifestyles they personally dislike, and of trying to impose instead their own choices, usually in the form of a traditional fantasy of ?family morality??.

  ?Their true motives are that they are afraid of attitudes and practices more relaxes than they can allow themselves to be ? their timidity, their religious anxieties, their fear that they might themselves be, say, homosexual or libidinous, and a host of personal motives besides, drive them to stop the rest of the world thinking, seeing, or doing what they are afraid to think, see or do themselves.?

  ?Every age thinks it is in crisis. Things have got worse, people say, clucking their tongues; crime is up, the quality of life down, the world in a mess.?
• 

  Yerusalyim

  SLM

  I should keep my mouth shut. :) And I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but this is how I feel: Ah...ain't it great we can still debate.

  First, you wrote, "...but that the faith of the nation can be freely expressed." There is no "faith" of the nation. This is not a Christian nation. Sorry. I didn't say we were a Christian Nation...but we are a Nation of Faith...or were at one time. ...Now days, even though the Federal Holiday is called "Christmas" schools are being sued by the ACLU for having a Calendar that mentions the "Christmas Holiday"

  
  And as for your comments about gays, abortion, obesity, and implying that poor people are not "helping themselves"...I didn't imply the poor aren't helping themselves...I'm saying that if we give government largess we have a right to expect something in return. I have a 52 year old brother in law that has only worked about six years of his life...he's been on the public dole...he's quit more jobs than I've ever had. There is absolutely no reason he can't work...except that he doesn't want to. And half his kids are on the public dole as well...and they are capable of work. My Neice broke away from it all and is supporting herself with no problem. His wife finally got tired of it all and is working out at JFK.
  
  Standpoint theory in the social sciences argues that we all view the world and make judgments from our standpoints, our perspectives, and our experiences. We can't say what we would do if we were someone else, because we are NOT. I've been poor, I've been hungry...I've had to make 1.5 lbs of meat and a bag of rice last seven days between five people...one of them my pregnant wife. I didn't sit with my hand out...I looked for work and took any job offered. Had I been asked I would have been more than willing to do some type of public service when I was on food stamps, etc in exchange for the largess...it would have given me pride.

  Are you gay? Nope, but that doesn't mean I can't comment on the issue of gay marriage. Otherwise, those who are gay shouldn't ask for the "right" to marry because they've never been married. That line of rationale just doesn't work. Are you an ethnic minority? I've lived in countries where I was the ethnic minority. Are you living in true poverty? I have lived in poverty. Have you ever been a 12-year-old pregnant girl? No, but I'm a parent who has had a 12 year old daughter...that more than qualifies me to comment on the subject of parental information AND CONSENT in regards to abortion. There is NO OTHER surgical procedure a 12 year old could get without parental information and consent. Abortion should be no different. Have you been a single parent in a dangerous neighborhood working two or three jobs to keep a crappy roof over your head? As a matter of fact I have been. Nope? Me either. I haven't. And so I don't pass judgment I've passed judgement? or assume I know what it is like to be in those situations. All I'm saying is, it's easy to criticize when you have it easy.

  And guess what? Do some research. There is much, much more to obesity than over-eating. Don't make assumptions.(Nope, I'm not obese, either.) My point was...which you apparently missed....that it's not McDonalds fault anyone is fat...so why sue them? If it's not an individuals fault (i.e. genetics) nor is it McDonalds fault.

  That said, I definitely agree with you on a few points: that were are self-possessed consumers ~ I want to move to Canada and live in a socialist democracy with free health care. You're welcome to pay their tax rates...will you be one of the many Canadians that come to the US for medical care because they have to wait months and sometimes years for medical procedures.I am serious. I also agree that we need to encourage community service. Hell, I think we should require it. Selfishness needs to be squashed.

  I also agree that we need to teach sexual morality. It is sad... I am a married college-aged woman, and I receive so much crap for being married from other people my age. It's awful -- they criticize me and ask why I would want to "waste my life" (I am in college and will be attending grad school next year - how is that wasting my life?) by getting married. Yet these people who say that run around, get drunk on the weekends, and have sex with everything that walks - and then brag about it and whine about all the problems it causes. Makes me mad. If you don't want the problems associated with casual polygymous sex, then don't have it. ;)

  See? I'm not ALL evil liberal. ;)

  It's great that we have the freedom to have such public discussions.

  Peace,

  Thanks for your comments. I disagree that this "Standpoint theory" has a legitimate place in this discussion. I'm not saying gays are wrong...fat people are at fault...etc, what I'm saying is Society needs some fixing. I do agree with one poster that each generations sees itself in crisis...that's because values change...I don't like where many of our values as a Society have gone. I don't want to go back to the past...rather...I want to move ahead to a better future.
• 

  Country Girl

  It's easy to get cynical about this Society. Like someone mentioned, each generation thinks it's worse than the one before it. Look at the 60's, people were upset that their boys were growing their hair long, taking drugs, and having easy sex. We lived through it. However, it's better to look and focus on what we *do* have:

  * Better health care.

  * We aren't attacked, as in many countries, by terrorists as we walk or drive along to work, or go to school.

  * Everyone's living longer, which gives us more time with our families.

  * Most of us have food, shelter, and water that is clean.

  * Sure we have a public dole, and some *do* take advantage of it, but we *do* have it if we need it, which I did for one month.

  * We have freedom of speech and religion.

  Again, a lot of countries don't have these things. We do. I try to concentrate on what is good with my country, instead of trying to focus on what is bad. There's bad to be found with everything.

  CG
• 

  ese

  It's great that racism is on it's way out the door
  
  
  hell no - u r a white man right? that's why u would say something ignorant like that - too bad
• 

  ese

  and i think u mean "musings" not "mussings"
• 

  SixofNine

  ese, let it go.